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I find the D-800 to be much more warm/fat sounding than the Subway channel on the TT-800. To my ear, the TT-800 Subway channel did not sound nearly as good as my D-800+. I did like the Boogie channel but in the end I sold the TT-800 but still have the WD-800, D-800, D-800+ and the D-350. A friend, however uses his TT-800 frequently and IIRC sold his WD-800 but kept his D-800+.
For me, the two most used of my Subway heads are the D-800+ and the WD-800. I favor the SW115 cabs and have a pair although I use only one for most gigs. I use my D-800+ with an Aguilar GS112 at church. That pairing sounds great to me. I have an upcoming outside gig in a park and plan to use both SW115's for that gig.
I think Rev_Slinky hit a lot of key aspects.
I will add that the power amp damping factor on the TT is the same on both the Boogie and SW channels (it's the same power amp section). This places the SW channel in the medium to low range...the D-800 has a higher damping factor and feels a little tighter and more SS quick (but not at all sterile). So between the TT's tube preamp voicing and that lower damping factor the SW channel on the TT has some foundational differences to the D-800.
I would also add that the TT's SW channel benefits from access to both a deep and bright switch (very usable), user selectable gain (drive level) for the tube preamp, a variable HPF, a semi-parametric mid EQ, and user adjustable OD symmetry. Depending on your playing style there is a lot there to get you some versatility the D-800 is hard pressed to match. Also, as mentioned the TT overall (both channels) are a fair bit inherently brighter than the D-800 right off the bat (although not in your face or annoyingly bright).
The D-800 sounds very good and offers the voicing control (a very useful feature) as well as two nicely placed mid EQ adjustments. While it does have an HPF it is not user adjustable. The D-800 does sound inherently warmer and to me feels a bit quicker/faster (which I attribute that to damping factor differences and it is mainly at lower frequencies where you would notice).
It would be easier for me to get a TT to sound close the D-800 than it would for the D-800 to get all the voicing and feel variations I can get out of the TT's SW channel. I own both but if I were forced to choose, I would keep the TT. That said, I don't feel in any way disappointed or relegated to a second rate amp when I use the D-800. The TT is essentially two exceptional amps in one box and as versatile as the D-800 voicing control is, the TT offers more options for me to adjust directly.
I hope that's useful....it's a data point from someone who has a lot of time on both heads but may hear things differently from you.
Last edited:
- Feb 12, 2006
- 52,447
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- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
The Subway channel on the TT is close to the D-800 but not the same because there are multiple tube gain stages stages (both voltage and current) in the signal path of the TT's Subway channel and some of the functions are thus handled in a different manner. The Subway channel also had to be tailored to work well in the context of the Boogie channel, it couldn't be so different that it impacted the usability of the channel switching feature. It was a compromise in order to get a tube version of the D-800 but also one that would work well with (rather than against) the Boogie channel. It was very much a balancing act.
...but an impressive one, despite some complex compromises.
Chuck, I remember that you spoke about this awhile back, but would you mind repeating what it is that you prefer about the WD-800 to the TT-800? I've always wanted to try the WD and am very curious about how other people experience the different voicings.
We need to keep in mind that we all have our own valid opinions about tone. My ears are not your ears....my basses are not your basses.
The WD sounds like a clean tube amp to me while the TT sounds more ...what?.....old school/older tube amp. Since I had both amps at the same time I was able to A/B them and also allowed myself to be very picky about the amps. The EQ section of the WD is fantastic. So much control and every knob really does something. Some amps have lots of knobs that do very little. The TT was more limited in the EQ section but still sounded very good.
IMO there is not a Subway head that does not sound great. All were designed with specific goals in mind. I had the luxury of owning all of the Subway heads at the same time but many of you are not able to compare them the way I did. Again I remind you that we each have personal goals and taste when it comes to bass amplification so my preferences may not match yours.
I haven't done any real troubleshooting yet, but I have the impression that my 800+ is slowly losing output volume. When I bought it (used), I already felt like it wasn't quite as loud as my D800. Over the past months, I find myself turning up volume more and more to be heard at rehearsal.
There are obviously some things I want to try before I can be sure:
- Try different basses, check their batteries
- Get 800 and 800+ in the same room and do direct A/B
But I still wanted to ask here, is this a phenomenon that has occurred before with this amp line?
There are obviously some things I want to try before I can be sure:
- Try different basses, check their batteries
- Get 800 and 800+ in the same room and do direct A/B
But I still wanted to ask here, is this a phenomenon that has occurred before with this amp line?
Use a decibel meter and make a little journal. It could be real but it may be the perception in different situations. Write down setting and readings and see if that’s really happening. Or take it to a tech for a test.
- Feb 12, 2006
- 52,447
- 176,650
- 14,248
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
This is not something I have seen before, I don’t know how it could happen.
Be sure it’s not your ear fatigue as you practice.
Thanks, Chuck! Your description of a clean versus and older tube amp is helpful. And I agree with you, there is not a Subway head that doesn't sound great. Tone can be very subjective but it's still great to hear your impressions since you were able to give them all a play. Plus, I think you and I both have a lot of love for the original D-800, which gives me a reference point, of sorts, for how our tastes might overlap a bit. Thanks again for sharing your experiences with these different heads!
I agree with Chuck M on all points. I have at various times owned each of all the Subway amps. They all touch a sweet spot for some bass player out there.
I found the Boogie Channel's interactivity of the tone controls to be a problem for me. And perhaps likewise, the complexity of the WD's EQ is more than I want to deal with. And the Subway Channel on the TT was, for me, nowhere near as cool sounding as the D800+ with some voicing dialed in.
Every time I got a new amp, including other brands but especially GK, I went back to the D800+ and found the sound in there after a little work. If the D800+ didn't exist, I'd be happy with any of the Subway amps, but the D800+ just scratches my itch perfectly.
I found the Boogie Channel's interactivity of the tone controls to be a problem for me. And perhaps likewise, the complexity of the WD's EQ is more than I want to deal with. And the Subway Channel on the TT was, for me, nowhere near as cool sounding as the D800+ with some voicing dialed in.
Every time I got a new amp, including other brands but especially GK, I went back to the D800+ and found the sound in there after a little work. If the D800+ didn't exist, I'd be happy with any of the Subway amps, but the D800+ just scratches my itch perfectly.
I have a bar gig tonight with a trio mostly originals but some covers. I was thinking of taking my Rumble 800 because it sounds good in that room but have decided to take one SW115 and......my D-800+. The D-800+ always pleases me. Yeah, it scratches my itch perfectly as well.
And the 115.... oooh.
There has never been a Wallenda who balances better than @agedhorse did with the TT!
First time I ever heard (no pun intended) anyone mention this type of problem.
Is it possible it is your cabinet being at its thermal limit and you are experiencing what is referred to as power or thermal compression (an audio output loss due to heating of the voice coil beyond design limits)? With these new higher output heads it is easy, especially with some aggressive EQ settings or continuous low bass at high volume, to push a cab to its limits.
I had an active bass who's preamp had a crazy amount of low end boost. The added low end was low enough that it was mostly inaudible through the cabs, but it would cause my SVT to thermal shutdown and my WD800 would constantly bounce off the limiter.
Before going into thermal shutdown the SVT would loose volume. Never had a shutdown with the WD800, although I figured out the cause and dialled that EQ way back.
Not sure if this is the OP's issue, I'm just throwing this story out for posterity.
I don't know much about the SVT design but I suspect that the inherent tolerance to hotter signals agedhorse incorporates in his designs as well as a HPF that is helping out even when the variable control knob is set fully counterclockwise was keeping the WD from shutting down.
- Feb 12, 2006
- 52,447
- 176,650
- 14,248
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
In t his situation, you might roll the HPF up a bit on the WD which will take care of most of that excess low end extension.
In the end, I replaced that bass' preamp with something less silly.
My point is mostly that something upstream can negatively impact the performance of an amplifier, and then people blame the amplifier.
My point is mostly that something upstream can negatively impact the performance of an amplifier, and then people blame the amplifier.