Problem with small cabs on small stages

[S-Bigbottom]

Hang the front feet of your head over the cab when tilted, it will not go anywhere.
Nothing to bring, buy or modify.

 

[micguy]

Hang the front feet of your head over the cab when tilted, it will not go anywhere.
Nothing to bring, buy or modify.

When my cab is tilted at 55 degrees, I ain't gonna rely on that strategy. I assume you're not tilting that much.

 

[Mastermold]

I mostly play on small stages with a small cab (1x12).

(1) Very often, I'm obliged to stand at a short distance from my small cab, so if I set my volume for the audience I can't hear myself, or I set the volume for myself and I'm too loud for the audience.

View attachment 7039896

(2) my guitarist uses an amp stand in order to rotate his amp, so he can hear himself well. He's using a combo amp, so it's fine, but if I did the same with my head + cab, the head would slip from the cab

(2 bis) There are solutions in order to fix the head on top of the cab, either in the Genzler way or the Quilter way, but I think there's no point using separate amp & cab if you have to attach them.

(3) I could use a stand that allows the amp to be raised without changing its orientation, but I'm afraid to loose the "coupling effect" of the floor. Is that a real thing? Or maybe I shouldn't worry about that?

(4) In another thread, @anderbass talks about the AudioKinesis Hathor cab, but I'd like to keep my Barefaced Super Compact, which I love

Thoughts?

The Mesa WA Scout cabinet solved this with a port on the bottom so you hear everything even standing right next to it. If you can find one, get it.

 

[Jeff Scott]

When my cab is tilted at 55 degrees, I ain't gonna rely on that strategy. I assume you're not tilting that much.

He might be after a few drinks.

 

[micguy]

He might be after a few drinks.

If you've had enough drinks to be tilted 55 degrees, you're probably on the floor. Which is good, because it's difficult to fall from there.

 

[HelpImaRock]

For me, the answer has always been raising the cabinet off the floor. I typically use a folding chair.

 

[agedhorse]

IMO and IME, the decoupling from the stage thing is partially true but partially a myth. First, there are two typed of coupling:

1. mechanical coupling which is where the physical vibration of the cabinet is coupled to the surface and structure of the stage. This can be a problem when there's no compliance between the speaker and the stage and the stage is not solid (concrete for example). A simple piece of carpet is all that's needed to isolate the two mechanically.

2. There's acoustic coupling, where the radiated acoustic energy of the speaker vibrates the stage and its structure. This is much harder to isolate, raising the speaker changes the coupling but can also introduce a small notch in the mid/low mid response depending on the height. This is due to the reflected energy combining with the incident energy but delayed by approx. 1mSec per foot. Cancellation will occur where the phase of the reflected sound is 180 from the incident sound and at the harmonics as the latency generates a "group delay" type response that repeats at frequencies that are time multiples of the distance. Below is an example of the type of constant delay (distance) versus frequency. For bass and 1 mSec (1 foot of delay), 1/2 cycle (180 degrees) would equate to roughly 500 Hz. This is also called a comb filter function because the response resembles a comb.

This plot shows the first 180 degrees of rotation to be at 2.5kHz so 0 degrees would be ~5kHz (which is where the graph crosses at 0 degrees) and the delay is about 100 uSec or about 1.25 inches (doing the math in my head)

As you can see, for a real loss of bass to occur, the distance would have to be pretty large to get 180 degrees of phase shift at say 50Hz. On the order of 10 feet, though there will be some impact at the harmonic intervals too, but the amplitude is decreasing and the acoustic space boundaries quickly begin to distort the math.

 

[agedhorse]

Incidentally, this is exactly how (traditional) directional mics work, either cardioid types of line gradient/periodic types)

@micguy pretty much lived this stuff professionally with a lot more intimacy and depth than I ever had to. It's a specialty within acoustics.

 

[basscooker]

2 and 3

 

[DJ Bebop]

 

[bertthebassist]

when your cab is tilted, where do you place your beer during songs?

 

[Mike Caldwell]

The Mesa WA Scout cabinet solved this with a port on the bottom so you hear everything even standing right next to it. If you can find one, get it.

On a small cabinet like that the port location is not going to change much .....if at all what you hear. The port only operates / contributes output over a narrow frequency range at the tuned frequency of the cabinet.

 

[leonard]

Anybody done this?

I have a DIY cab right about that size. I'm thinking of installing a top hat adapter to use it on a PA speaker stand.

 

[agedhorse]

Anybody done this?

I have a DIY cab right about that size. I'm thinking of installing a top hat adapter to use it on a PA speaker stand.

That will work, but the base of most stands will be under foot on stage.

 

[FRoss6788]

a bungee anchored at the side handles

This works great and I've found a discreet looking black fabric bungee you can barely see.

 

[Mastermold]

On a small cabinet like that the port location is not going to change much .....if at all what you hear. The port only operates / contributes output over a narrow frequency range at the tuned frequency of the cabinet.

I’m not an engineer and know nothing about cabinet design. Mesa’s WA port, so I’ve read on TB, is called a radiator, apparently a speaker of some kind that helps distribute low end frequency. I find it’s easier to hear myself when standing next to it on small stages, but have no idea how it works. I just assumed the downward placement bounced sound off the floor in close proximity.

 

[DJ Bebop]

2 and 3View attachment 7041122
View attachment 7041123

Reminds me of how I used to set up my junk…

 

[agedhorse]

I’m not an engineer and know nothing about cabinet design. Mesa’s WA port, so I’ve read on TB, is called a radiator, apparently a speaker of some kind that helps distribute low end frequency. I find it’s easier to hear myself when standing next to it on small stages, but have no idea how it works . I just assumed the downward placement bounced sound off the floor in close proximity.

It’s a tuned radiator, similar to a port in operation yet different at the same time.

 

[mcrawfordmusic]

Nothing wrong with tilting or raising the cab off the ground. Option 3 is what I do in small rooms using a milk crate covered in black cloth.
But sometimes rooms just sound bad and you have to live with it.

 

[AK Bass Guy]

Amp stands are great. Keyboard stands are also great. People keep giving me free keyboard stands and I find all kinds of useful things they can work for.
Like a workbench for basses.