I like this. My favorite drummer is rock solid (that's one of the reasons) but his day job starts at 5:30 am; by the time it's 12:30 am he's running on caffeine. He still keeps time like a boss, but he can be a bit excitable regarding tempo.
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Rhythm help for drummer, band
- Thread starter bumperbass
- Start date
I like this. My favorite drummer is rock solid (that's one of the reasons) but his day job starts at 5:30 am; by the time it's 12:30 am he's running on caffeine. He still keeps time like a boss, but he can be a bit excitable regarding tempo.
In my experience it's honestly just a practice issue. A click track in their monitor can help, especially if the drummer deals with some stage anxiety or something, but ultimately that's not the real issue.
I'm in a band right now that's been together for about a year and a half. In that time we've had 2 excellent drummers and 2 talented but not quite as good drummers. I understand that that's a small sample size, but the difference between all of them (when it comes to rhythm) came down to two major things.
1. Actually practicing, learning, and knowing the ORIGINAL songs really well. The drummers who really took the time to learn the tunes completely are the ones who had no trouble with pushing or driving. Drummers not knowing the tune really is a serious problem. How can you create a good feel if you don't know what the song should feel like to begin with?
2. Knowing how to do fills. This seems obvious, but drummers who seem otherwise very solid, sometimes can't do fills in time. You generally won't notice that the fill is out of time, but when they come back in after, they will suddenly be pulling or driving the song.
I'm in a band right now that's been together for about a year and a half. In that time we've had 2 excellent drummers and 2 talented but not quite as good drummers. I understand that that's a small sample size, but the difference between all of them (when it comes to rhythm) came down to two major things.
1. Actually practicing, learning, and knowing the ORIGINAL songs really well. The drummers who really took the time to learn the tunes completely are the ones who had no trouble with pushing or driving. Drummers not knowing the tune really is a serious problem. How can you create a good feel if you don't know what the song should feel like to begin with?
2. Knowing how to do fills. This seems obvious, but drummers who seem otherwise very solid, sometimes can't do fills in time. You generally won't notice that the fill is out of time, but when they come back in after, they will suddenly be pulling or driving the song.
Correction: Kenny Jones actually has good time. He was getting the sequencer tracks that were important to songs like baba o'reilly and the strings/horns and effects from the songs on Quadrophenia. I get that it didn't (completely) work but having seen the face dances tour with KJ, I rather liked what he brought to the Who.
Mugre
I like this. My favorite drummer is rock solid (that's one of the reasons) but his day job starts at 5:30 am; by the time it's 12:30 am he's running on caffeine. He still keeps time like a boss, but he can be a bit excitable regarding tempo.
Yeah, huge difference between not being able to keep good time and not being able to start at the "right" tempo.
A buddy of mine used to be in a band where there was constant tension between the drummer and the singer/keyboard player over tempos.
Both of them were great musicians, but also had short tempers and didn't like to compromise.
The drummer wanted the option to play songs a little faster or slower at gigs, based on reading the crowd or whatever, but the singer was really strict about how fast/slow he could do certain songs.
They almost got in fist fights about it multiple times until the two of them sat down with a hand-held metronome and agreed on an exact bpm for every song in the set. The tempos would get written on the set list next to each song and the singer would walk over, whip out the metronome, dial up the click and hold it up to the drummer's ear before the songs. It was ridiculous. The band fell apart soon after, despite having 5 great musicians in it and getting as many good paying gigs as they could handle.
I'll admit to not having the greatest time but back when the Roland 707 and 727's were the current drum machine I was in one of my last bands on drums. We were having tempo arguments and it was I who suggested bringing in my drum machine and taking a click through headphones. Again while I admit my strongest suit wasn't staying in the pocket the real problem was they guitarist rushing and the bass player going along with him. Most of our songs had guitar intros where the drums were tacit until the second verse and within seconds after giving them the tempo with stick clicks, he would start speeding up. Even after I had come in and had the click to be the truth teller I could feel him pulling at the tempo. It was then that I came up with the analogy where the Time (in capital letters) wasn't something mandated by the drummer but was something agreed upon by everyone. I used the analogy of 3-5 people trying to run while holding a rope and how the movement of any player pulled upon the others who then compensated either by going along or pulling back. This was reinforced when I spent a few months in a two drummer band. The idea of "agreeing" on the time became even stronger.
I will say as a drummer that playing to a click even in rehearsal really keeps you honest not just in not speeding up or slowing down but also in not shoe-horning clever but ill-conceived fills that destroy the flow.
I find the drummers with the best natural time almost always participate in some combo of singing, dancing or playing another instrument.
I will say as a drummer that playing to a click even in rehearsal really keeps you honest not just in not speeding up or slowing down but also in not shoe-horning clever but ill-conceived fills that destroy the flow.
I find the drummers with the best natural time almost always participate in some combo of singing, dancing or playing another instrument.
Sorry but i expect drummers to have good internal time. This can be attained through focused practice with a metronome. They should expect the same of me as well. No one wants to play jazz or any other traditional style of music to a click track of any sort. I'd prefer a drummer to play simple beats in time than complicated beats with a wavering pulse.
buldog5151bass
Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.
I CERTAINLY am not saying that Jones wasn't an excellent musician - quite that opposite - but that professional musicians use click tracks.
For a drummer who plays too fast or speeds up, I've gotten the best results by rehearsing at slower than ideal tempos at practice, which seems to carry over into more reasonable tempos at gigs (which are inevitably faster than rehearsals), coupled with sometimes using a simple metronome in the PA or the drummer's ear (at rehearsal) to lock in the tempo for a particularly tricky tune.
For other musicians who are not linking with the drummer, the best remedy I've found is to get everyone except the drummer to tune down and ask everyone to focus on relying upon him as a tempo reference. I've found this particularly helpful in loud groups where the drums aren't dominant as it is easy for one person to speed up and others to follow suit.
For other musicians who are not linking with the drummer, the best remedy I've found is to get everyone except the drummer to tune down and ask everyone to focus on relying upon him as a tempo reference. I've found this particularly helpful in loud groups where the drums aren't dominant as it is easy for one person to speed up and others to follow suit.
IME a solid drummer keeps it groovy either with or without a click track. Equally, a bad drummer, IME struggles both ways. Still can't figure out why so many think a metronome can do the trick. A decent drummer should simply COMMAND the band, either when riding free or when "tied" to a click track syncing to sequenced stuff. There's no such thing as a cure for bad tempo, sorry to say. Any further attempt is expecting miracles to happen. I've observed (and unfortunately had to deal with) clumsy/glitchy drummers. If your drummer can't be the boss without a metronome neither will he with one. When I say command I'm not saying fast, nor acrobatic nor specially proficient in any aspect, just somebody with a normal internal beat (96% of people). Some people don't notice any inability when first starting to play drums (and those around think it's going to get better), next time you check there's Brad Wilk onstage (painful to watch/hear live). Then again, you have Anthony Kiedis singing for a top live act.
EDIT: DON'T do the "click for everyone" thing, ever, it's useless for the rest of the band and probably will feel more intimidating for the drummer than keeping the click to himself.
EDIT: DON'T do the "click for everyone" thing, ever, it's useless for the rest of the band and probably will feel more intimidating for the drummer than keeping the click to himself.
I have been in situations where bands I've played in have decided BPM in advance, and the drummer would set the tempo with a small muted metronome w/flashing LED. It's worked out very well. I've also been blessed innumerable times with having rock solid time keepers to play with throughout pretty much my entire 30+ years of playing.
Currently involved in 3 different projects with different drummers. Each is very talented but they are different as night and day in techniques, feels, approaches, etc. But all 3 are dead nuts on with keeping time. One uses a click track, one does that aforementioned metronome trick, and the other seems to have an uncanny knack for just getting it right with no assistance.
Currently involved in 3 different projects with different drummers. Each is very talented but they are different as night and day in techniques, feels, approaches, etc. But all 3 are dead nuts on with keeping time. One uses a click track, one does that aforementioned metronome trick, and the other seems to have an uncanny knack for just getting it right with no assistance.
Most "commanding" drummer I've watched live. I've even seen Sir Paul turn back after some screwups, as if apologizing to the guy. He's SUCH a boss...
Interesting. As someone who sings the occasional lead vocal, I understand playing a little faster in a live setting, but it can't be so fast that I can't get all the words out!
42 years ago the drummer in our band would buy a whole bag of Bit O' Honey (similar to Taffy for those unfamiliar) candy bars for every gig. He would put 1/2 of the bag in his mouth at the start of the gig. They would be hard to chew so every song dragged. As more and more dissolved he/we would start to speed up. 1/2 way through the night he would pop in the remaining 1/2 a bag and slow down again, but as they dissolved we sould start to speed up again and by the time they were gone, he would be pumped full of sugar and we were off to the races.
Not if the band is playing for a dancing crowd. Steady is exactly what they expect and want. But needing to use a metronome or click (other than as a count-in) is lame, and a drummer who needs that to maintain tempo isn't much of a drummer.
As the drummer in a group that plays to a click I can weigh in on that: What happens during passages with no drums? The drummer has to provide some rhythmic reference, commonly a chuck on the hihats at an interval that doesn’t disrupt the groove, isn’t too obnoxious, and keeps time for the members of the band playing while the drums are out. That’s not a big deal, but it can get a little sonically tiring for the audience. If everyone has a click the need for the drummer to chuck away is removed.
Definitely not a deal breaker either way, but as a drummer, if I’m playing to a click I MUCH prefer everyone to be on the same click.
MDBass
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Drummers who "can't keep or feel a groove that well" aren't drummers at all...they're just people who happen to own a drum set
Any click or beat reference coming through wedge monitors in a live setting is really bush-league, but anyone with IEM's is welcome to have it in their ears
MDBass
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1. You definitely don't need those extra sounds, if anything I'd find that pretty distracting.
2. The only reason for everyone else to have click in their ears is so the drummer isn't forced to keep time in the sections they aren't playing; having the whole band come in together after a bar or two of complete silence is much more impactful than if that bar our two had some light hi-hat for timekeeping purposes.