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Seriously, I cannot pound a *$%!#& nail!
- Thread starter blastoff99
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I think you underestimate the depth of the problem. These are pre-drilled holes. CLEARANCE holes. I'm still bending nails. Srsly.
One thing you can do with brad-gauge finishing nails is hold them when needlenose pliers. Takes more time but you can control the angle before striking them.
Pretty sure they are well held, because they are in clearance holes. They stay there without being held.
My nail-pounding practice yesterday would have been hilarious had it not been so pathetic. Really, I can do many other things that require coordination. But somehow, not this.
Cheapest solution for that finicky finish stuff is an electric brad nailer....in my neck of the woods under $50. Well worth the investment to avoid just the issues you are having. I find using primed MDF trim/millwork is a huge time saver as well.
I just built a shed and used a pneumatic framing nailer for the skeleton and for the sheathing. but when I went to install the siding (cottage grade shiplap), I couldn't find the right nail/nailer combo (I own a few nailers - air and electric). So I went old school with 2" galvanized 10p nails and a hammer. Fortunately, I only snagged a small handful of nails that I had to pull and retail. Not a bad result for a weekend warrior carpenter.
I just built a shed and used a pneumatic framing nailer for the skeleton and for the sheathing. but when I went to install the siding (cottage grade shiplap), I couldn't find the right nail/nailer combo (I own a few nailers - air and electric). So I went old school with 2" galvanized 10p nails and a hammer. Fortunately, I only snagged a small handful of nails that I had to pull and retail. Not a bad result for a weekend warrior carpenter.
You may have said, but what are you nailing into? Plywood edge, 2X framing? It sounds like you're trying to go into metal or knots or something.
I did a fair amount of quarter round after replacing a floor.
I bought 1/16" drill bits and an adapter for my dramel. predrilled about 1000 holes and nailed finishing nails, and nailed and nailed. then I used a nail set and put the heads just below the surface of the quarter round. Then puttied and puttied and puttied. The key was predrilled holes and a fine nail set. 13 to 16 oz hammer.
This is from a guy who kept hitting the meaty part of his hand with a waffle faced hammer.
I bought 1/16" drill bits and an adapter for my dramel. predrilled about 1000 holes and nailed finishing nails, and nailed and nailed. then I used a nail set and put the heads just below the surface of the quarter round. Then puttied and puttied and puttied. The key was predrilled holes and a fine nail set. 13 to 16 oz hammer.
This is from a guy who kept hitting the meaty part of his hand with a waffle faced hammer.
I have done a lot of finishing woodwork over the years. Like a few others have said, pre-drill a pilot hole that is just a tad smaller in diameter than the finishing nail. Use a small tact hammer, then counter sink finishing nail. Fill, paint and be done with it.
Yeah I guess I'll go ride my unicycle or something. It's such a useful skill.
. But thanks. This is weird.
Plywood edge. Maybe I bought rubber nails by mistake. I should check the box.
blastoff99. I suggest that for the quickest, easiest, and cheapest method, that you try the panel and trim adhesive that I posted about earlier.
The edge of plywood is a good substrate for that stuff to adhere to.
When I used it in my daughters old mobile home, she had painted the wood paneling, and I used it to put trim at the ceiling. I was worried at first, that once I put the piece up, it might need to be held in place so that it would not fall off before the adhesive held it up, but it did not sag. It was larger than what you are using, and it all stayed in place when I put it up. No nail holes to fill reduced the time involved too.
Part of the answer to what method you will employ depends on how much trim you intend to install. A small amount may not justify buying a small compressor, and nail guns.
Another part is what the trim stock is made out of. Oak would be more difficult to nail than pine or poplar. For painted trim, the new composite materials are easy to cut, nail paint, and are usually less costly than pine.
Drilling before nailing would only make sense if you are installing a small amount of oak, or other hard wood trim from a time, and labor standpoint.
I used the adhesive even though I have the electric, and pneumatic equipment to nail the trim because I wanted to see how well it worked, and since it was my daughters place, if it failed, it would not be like someone had paid me to do trim work in a fancy house, and I could just go back and fix it if there was a problem. This was a low budget mobile home fix-up, and we used lightweight composit trim, and painted over it. It worked to my satisfaction, and came out much better than any of the original trim that I did not replace.
If you intend to do a lot of trim, you should probably buy a small compressor, and a brad, and finish nailer package deal. I would not buy any of that stuff used, because the smaller, and lighter compressors are not lubricated, and buying used might get you one with a lot of miles on it. (I am a fanatic about tools, and always buy the better, or best, so maybe I am a little biased here, but I would not buy any Harbour Freight stuff, but brand name like Senco, Hitachi, Dewalt, etc).
Pre-drilling would be the last method I would use for anything more than one or two small windows.
I am not a finish carpenter, but I have remodeled a few houses, and have done a lot of fine woodworking.
Try the adhesive on one window, and let us know what you think.
Edit to add, that a milled-face hammer is not the correct hammer to use on finish nails. And, you should strike nails, or wood only with this type of hammer. If you strike other tools, like a nail set, chisel, or flat bar with a milled-face hammer, you will damage the hammer, and the other tool as well. The problem with using one on trim, is that instead of a flat smooth dent a regular hammer leaves from poor technique, the milled-face will leave a nasty waffle impression in your finish surface that will be harder to repair.
The best hammer to use for brads, and finish nails is what is known as a Warrington pattern. The ones I own are antique, and not labeled with a brand name, but I suspect were made in England at the turn of the 19th to the 20th century, and the shape of the head allows them to be used in very tight spaces by having a flat section in the round head like some modern framing hammers have. You can get close to a wall with this design.
Anyway, here is the type of hammer I would use for hand nailing trim: Stanley Warrington Hammers - Lee Valley Tools
The edge of plywood is a good substrate for that stuff to adhere to.
When I used it in my daughters old mobile home, she had painted the wood paneling, and I used it to put trim at the ceiling. I was worried at first, that once I put the piece up, it might need to be held in place so that it would not fall off before the adhesive held it up, but it did not sag. It was larger than what you are using, and it all stayed in place when I put it up. No nail holes to fill reduced the time involved too.
Part of the answer to what method you will employ depends on how much trim you intend to install. A small amount may not justify buying a small compressor, and nail guns.
Another part is what the trim stock is made out of. Oak would be more difficult to nail than pine or poplar. For painted trim, the new composite materials are easy to cut, nail paint, and are usually less costly than pine.
Drilling before nailing would only make sense if you are installing a small amount of oak, or other hard wood trim from a time, and labor standpoint.
I used the adhesive even though I have the electric, and pneumatic equipment to nail the trim because I wanted to see how well it worked, and since it was my daughters place, if it failed, it would not be like someone had paid me to do trim work in a fancy house, and I could just go back and fix it if there was a problem. This was a low budget mobile home fix-up, and we used lightweight composit trim, and painted over it. It worked to my satisfaction, and came out much better than any of the original trim that I did not replace.
If you intend to do a lot of trim, you should probably buy a small compressor, and a brad, and finish nailer package deal. I would not buy any of that stuff used, because the smaller, and lighter compressors are not lubricated, and buying used might get you one with a lot of miles on it. (I am a fanatic about tools, and always buy the better, or best, so maybe I am a little biased here, but I would not buy any Harbour Freight stuff, but brand name like Senco, Hitachi, Dewalt, etc).
Pre-drilling would be the last method I would use for anything more than one or two small windows.
I am not a finish carpenter, but I have remodeled a few houses, and have done a lot of fine woodworking.
Try the adhesive on one window, and let us know what you think.
Edit to add, that a milled-face hammer is not the correct hammer to use on finish nails. And, you should strike nails, or wood only with this type of hammer. If you strike other tools, like a nail set, chisel, or flat bar with a milled-face hammer, you will damage the hammer, and the other tool as well. The problem with using one on trim, is that instead of a flat smooth dent a regular hammer leaves from poor technique, the milled-face will leave a nasty waffle impression in your finish surface that will be harder to repair.
The best hammer to use for brads, and finish nails is what is known as a Warrington pattern. The ones I own are antique, and not labeled with a brand name, but I suspect were made in England at the turn of the 19th to the 20th century, and the shape of the head allows them to be used in very tight spaces by having a flat section in the round head like some modern framing hammers have. You can get close to a wall with this design.
Anyway, here is the type of hammer I would use for hand nailing trim: Stanley Warrington Hammers - Lee Valley Tools
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That could be the greatest gag ever.
Just an FYI, you can get a corded gun that will shoot brads up to 5/8" for less than $40.00. I don't know how it would w
My all time favorite was an episode of Candid Camera where they made up a bunch of fake plastic spoons out of pressed sugar and put them on the counter of a roadside coffee shop. I'd bet rubber nails would be close though.
I understand. I can hammer nails, rewire things, do basic plumbing, I once even rebuilt the engine in my car, but I can't paint. When I was in the second grade, I was banned from finger painting after the first session. The kids on either side of me and I all went home covered with paint.
I can walk through a room with a sealed can of paint in it and get paint all over me. Everything I paint looks horrible.
I can walk through a room with a sealed can of paint in it and get paint all over me. Everything I paint looks horrible.
Sears or something that has this hammer using a magnet holds the nail for you on the hammer itself. Give that a shot. Otherwise watch Karate Kid part 2.
I think some of you may not be getting that with pre-drilled holes, there is no problem with holding the nails (or fear of hitting myself with the hammer). The nails are holding themselves. I just can't hit them square, apparently.
To whoever suggested adhesive: I suppose that would have to be clamped. How on earth would I manage that?
To whoever suggested adhesive: I suppose that would have to be clamped. How on earth would I manage that?
I suggested adhesive. I was worried that the trim that I attached on the painted wood paneled would need to be held in place for some minutes before letting go, but as I recall it did not. The trim I installed was lightweight composit.
I think I used Loctite PL 505. I just checked the directions, and it does say to clamp, or hold in place. But, I think they might say this to cover a range of material weights.
I think I took a chance on it because of the fact that I was using light weight stock. All I can say is it worked for me. I started out running painters tape lengthwise on the trim, and after a while just held it in place for about a minute or so.
I can't guarantee it will work for you like it did for me, but you are installing very light stock, and a tube of this adhesive is under six dollars.
I tried it because I was curious to see how well it worked.
If I was installing trim in my house today I would use the pneumatic nailing equipment I already own.
If I did not own that equipment, and intended to install lightweight trim one time, and did not want to buy, borrow, or rent the tools to do it, I would use the adhesive again.
Paneling & Trim Adhesive PL 505 from Loctite Adhesives from Loctite Products Mobile Product Advisor. Expert guidance to find the best adhesive, glue and sealing solutions.
I think I used Loctite PL 505. I just checked the directions, and it does say to clamp, or hold in place. But, I think they might say this to cover a range of material weights.
I think I took a chance on it because of the fact that I was using light weight stock. All I can say is it worked for me. I started out running painters tape lengthwise on the trim, and after a while just held it in place for about a minute or so.
I can't guarantee it will work for you like it did for me, but you are installing very light stock, and a tube of this adhesive is under six dollars.
I tried it because I was curious to see how well it worked.
If I was installing trim in my house today I would use the pneumatic nailing equipment I already own.
If I did not own that equipment, and intended to install lightweight trim one time, and did not want to buy, borrow, or rent the tools to do it, I would use the adhesive again.
Paneling & Trim Adhesive PL 505 from Loctite Adhesives from Loctite Products Mobile Product Advisor. Expert guidance to find the best adhesive, glue and sealing solutions.
Gaolee
Official leathers tester and crash dummy
Some types of mastic don't require being held. They are thick enough that it's like putting up masking tape, only it's a piece of trim. That's one thing that came to mind reading through all this.
Also, if it makes you feel better, I have done a whole lot of carpentry, roofing, cabinet making, and all that over the years. Driving nails is not one of my strengths, even though I have done lots of it. Go figure. When I finally got a pneumatic nailer, the world suddenly became a brighter, more colorful place that even smelles better.
I don't remember what the finish nailer cost me, but I use it regularly. If you were a little closer, you could borrow the compressor and a couple different sized nailers, since you would probably be done before my next project that involves nails. That said, you should be able to find a decent compressor and finish nailer on Craigslist or at a pawn shop for a pretty decent price if you don't want to spring for new stuff at Home Depot or a construction supply house.
Also, if it makes you feel better, I have done a whole lot of carpentry, roofing, cabinet making, and all that over the years. Driving nails is not one of my strengths, even though I have done lots of it. Go figure. When I finally got a pneumatic nailer, the world suddenly became a brighter, more colorful place that even smelles better.
I don't remember what the finish nailer cost me, but I use it regularly. If you were a little closer, you could borrow the compressor and a couple different sized nailers, since you would probably be done before my next project that involves nails. That said, you should be able to find a decent compressor and finish nailer on Craigslist or at a pawn shop for a pretty decent price if you don't want to spring for new stuff at Home Depot or a construction supply house.
Correction: This is what I used. Installing wall trim or crown molding using LOCTITE Power Grab Express Molding & Paneling from Loctite Adhesives
Now, I see that they recommend that you use it to hold the trim in place while you tack it after it is up. It says you use less nails.
I did not use any nails. Also, now I remember why I tried it. My pneumatic equipment was a 300 mile round trip away from my daughters place. I went there prepared only to paint, and decided to redo the trim once I saw how bad the condition of it was.
It worked for me, but maybe I won't recommend it 100% for someone else.
Now, I see that they recommend that you use it to hold the trim in place while you tack it after it is up. It says you use less nails.
I did not use any nails. Also, now I remember why I tried it. My pneumatic equipment was a 300 mile round trip away from my daughters place. I went there prepared only to paint, and decided to redo the trim once I saw how bad the condition of it was.
It worked for me, but maybe I won't recommend it 100% for someone else.