Stage volume vs PA

#21
Most guitar guys I work with use 25 watt combo amps. One guy told me the only time he needed a 50 watter was when he played on a huge stage at Summerfest (huge music fest with huge stages). The PA guy will mic 'em and take care of the rest. If the crowd can't hear the guitars, it's the PA guys fault pure and simple.

Bass players need about 10x more of what the guitarists have, so with you at 300 watts, you are barely/not quite there with 2 guitarists running at 25 watts each. You'd be better with at least 500 watts, but it also depends on your style of music, the efficiency of cab, and other variables.

For good stage presence and front row sound, each guitar guy runs a 25 watt combo, and you run at least 500 watts as a combo or stack.
The PA guy will take over from there.
 
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#23
Coolhandjjl said:
Most guitar guys I work with use 25 watt combo amps. One guy told me the only time he needed a 50 watter was when he played on a huge stage at Summerfest (huge music fest with huge stages). The PA guy will mic 'em and take care of the rest. If the crowd can't hear the guitars, it's the PA guys fault pure and simple.

Bass players need about 10x more of what the guitarists have, so with you at 300 watts, you are barely/not quite there with 2 guitarists running at 25 watts each. You'd be better with at least 500 watts, but it also depends on your style of music, the efficiency of cab, and other variables.

For good stage presence and front row sound, each guitar guy runs a 25 watt combo, and you run at least 500 watts as a combo or stack.
The PA guy will take over from there.
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I’ve never run at full volume lol, usually I’m at half way on the head and control my volume via my bass. I think their combo amps lack power.
 
#24
kev451 said:
Because this has been an issue that had been on going for about 3 years. Now mind you the moment they use full cabs we don’t have this issue...we have played several shows where bands have shared gear and they have had to use full cabs and heads and guess what we sound great...
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Could it simply be an issue with guitar tone? Is their tone improving when using gear that's not theirs simply because they're using somebody else's settings?

Neither size of the speakers nor combo vs. rig should be any sort of issue.
 
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#25
Kro said:
Could it simply be an issue with guitar tone? Is their tone improving when using gear that's not theirs simply because they're using somebody else's settings?

Neither size of the speakers nor combo vs. rig should be any sort of issue.
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Thats something to look into which to me lends to me thinking using the Amps they are using aren’t cutting it live.
 
#26
If there is a full set of stage monitors and FOH, you can just use a DI, lots of players do... This should put things in perspective as to what you need on stage.
IME the best sounding bands are bands that sound good in rehearsal, then they don't change anything on stage and just let the house bring up the volumes with DI's and mics.
 
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#27
Bassbeater said:
If there is a full set of stage monitors and FOH, you can just use a DI, lots of players do... This should put things in perspective as to what you need on stage.
IME the best sounding bands are bands that sound good in rehearsal, then they don't change anything on stage and just let the house bring up the volumes with DI's and mics.
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Here’s where it gets me we use rented studios the hourly kind...where they use...full cabs...live they use combos...
 
#28
I have a 40W Marshall 1x12 combo, and I can't even turn it up past 3 ( not 3 o'clock...that would be deadly!!) on any normal size stage without it being way too loud.

+1 to their tone not cutting through if there's really an issue. Any amp should be fine. They may have the tone controls set for their "bedroom tone", which doesn't work in a live situation at all.
 
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#29
kev451 said:
Here’s where it gets me we use rented studios the hourly kind...where they use...full cabs...live they use combos...
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I recommend next rehearsal they use the same combos they use on stage and you all work to balance the sound and volume in the small room. If you keep the settings(take photos if you have to), then using the classic recipe of letting the sound crew mic and DI everything and getting your sound into the house system should give you guys a stellar live sound with a very short sound check. Good luck!.
 
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#30
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#34
Please describe your PA system specs. Are you mic'ing the guitar and bass cabs? What kind of music and venues are you playing?

In my opinion, "pushing stage volume" is a recipe for a bad overall mix. All that noise is pumping into your vocal mics, and it becomes very difficult to hear the vocals. Not to mention potential feedback issues that are created. In my experience, the people who want to crank their stage rigs do so because they like the feel of the the air flapping their pant legs. I'll admit it can "feel" pretty righteous, but you are most likely punishing the audience with that volume.

My rock band is capable of ZERO stage volume (everything DI'ed, with V-drums), but our PA is loud enough to make skulls explode. I share the opinion that you might want to consult a sound engineer to help fine tune your live sound and volume.
 
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#38
With all due respect to you kev451, I'm betting the reason your having sound issues is because you're stage volume is so loud that the only thing in the PA is vocals, some kick drum & maybe a little bit of bass (since you say you use good stage volume) & yes, even with combos your guitars are plenty loud out front. So your fighting the PA.

Curious, are you coming to this conclusion from the stage or out front?

For 15 years I had an awesome guitarist who was never in our PA (we provide our own full PA with subs) because he was loud enough as it was. And the big problem with that was the beaming issue with whatever he used (half stack or 2x12 combo). So anyone in front of him was blasted but to the sides he was a little weak.
 
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#39
Bullitt5135 said:
Please describe your PA system specs. Are you mic'ing the guitar and bass cabs? What kind of music and venues are you playing?
Click to expand...
Completely agree, there's not enough information here and that could be a big part of why there's so much arguing back and forth.

It seems the vocals and bass are going into the board and pumped through FOH. It's not clear that the guitars are and that will change things. If the guitarists are having to provide enough sound for stage AND FOH then I can see a situation where they might sound underpowered with combos relative to cabs. If they're mic'ed up and going through FOH then I agree the sound engineer isn't mixing correctly.
 
#40
mwbassace said:
With all due respect to you kev451, I'm betting the reason your having sound issues is because you're stage volume is so loud that the only thing in the PA is vocals, some kick drum & maybe a little bit of bass (since you say you use good stage volume) & yes, even with combos your guitars are plenty loud out front. So your fighting the PA.

Curious, are you coming to this conclusion from the stage or out front?

For 15 years I had an awesome guitarist who was never in our PA (we provide our own full PA with subs) because he was loud enough as it was. And the big problem with that was the beaming issue with whatever he used (half stack or 2x12 combo). So anyone in front of him was blasted but to the sides he was a little weak.
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Im going to respectfully disagree. As I stated earlier I go off of what the sound guy tells me stage volume wise. As soon as we are done with a sound check I have someone play my bass so I hear it from the front of stage. I’m very aware of my stage volume. I’m attaching a picture of my settings volume wise on my head. As

As you can see I’m not even close to being halfway up.
 

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