Double Bass Stopping Feedback in LOUD Settings

#41
That's what i use the low band for. On my bass with the Full Circle, E to G on the E string are too big. So I set the low band at about25 hz, and mess with the q and amount of attenuation until the E string is balanced, and then it brings down the subsonics ,too. People don't realize that Piezos have a TON of subsonic stuff going on. So your amp and speaker are huffing and puffing to amplify gunk that you don't want. TBer Fdeck apparently makes an inline high pass filter. Never tried it, but a damn good idea.
 
#43
The high and low pass fillers are pretty much the reason I snagged the Peavey (yeah yeah...) eq31 when I saw it. So realistically all I need is ONE parametric band for seek and destroy on the main note, and I bet the graphic would deal with the rest.
I'm trying to get away with NOT spending 500 bucks or more on this though. ;)
 
#45
Uncletoad said:
Stay well behind the main speakers and well away from the subs.
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I'm not saying you're wrong, but how does Chris get away with it? I'm having feedback issues right now with my full circle into my GK head through my Berg HT112. I have to use my VT Bass Pedal to control the sound, but I can't get much volume. The style of music I'm playing is similar to Medeski, Martin & Wood... loud and funky.

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#46
I'm not sure that he's plugged his CheqEze into everything that he's standing next to there. Do you know his signal chain for the string bass?
 
#47
Uncletoad said:
I'm not sure that he's plugged his CheqEze into everything that he's standing next to there. Do you know his signal chain for the string bass?
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Good question. I will look into it. I kinda' think that he's running that bass through the rig on the top. I'll get back to you on that.

How do I dampen the strings with velcro between the bridge and the tailpiece? I already wedged a rolled up cloth between the body and the tailpiece. It dampens the vibrations, but I guess that's the idea.
 
#49
Earlier in this thread, Mike was talking about the eub he uses. I found a video of him playing it on youtube and I thought I should post it so you could see it too. I think the bass sounds great and the solo is fantastic.




Edit: My laptop speakers don't do the sound of the bass justice. I had to put on a pair of hi-fi headphones. I highly recommend it.
 
#51
The velcro thing is simple. Take cut of the velcro with the two sides long enough to cover the entire width of your four strings and attach it so the strings are all connected by the velcro, one part facing the bass top the other facing out from the strings between the tailpiece and the bridge.

Sounds like MMW's Chris wood doesn't use an amp for the string bass most of the time and when he does it's a little one that is not in that picture.

It's virtually impossible to stand next to a really loud bass amp and not have it squeal like a pig.

Have you done a search on feedback? I wrote a bunch stuff about it a long time ago. Try that stuff and see what happens.
 
#53
Uncletoad said:
Have you done a search on feedback? I wrote a bunch stuff about it a long time ago. Try that stuff and see what happens.
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Yes sir, I read your numbered list. That's where I initially got the info to velcro the strings. I wasn't sure if it was as simple as just sandwiching the strings with velcro of if I needed to weave it or something... thanks!

I tried the rolled up towel between the tailpiece and body, that seems to help a little bit. I'll have to try the velcro tomorrow. Thanks again.

Peace,
Joe

PS "Squeal like a pig" :p
 
#54
I don't remember the list anymore but one thing I've noticed lately is that if I point my speaker right square at the back of the bass it feeds back much less and I can hear it just fine. People out front say it sounds fine when that's all I'm using for sound reinforcement.
 
#56
Uncletoad said:
I'm not sure that he's plugged his CheqEze into everything that he's standing next to there. Do you know his signal chain for the string bass?
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I saw them a couple weeks ago and it sure seemed like he was using the SWR 4x10 for electric and the GK head with the Hartke for the upright. A bit of a weird set up but Dave Holland (who he took lessons from) runs a Hartke 4x10 with his GK microbass. Maybe he got the idea from him?
 
#57
Matthew Tucker said:
Something I noticed ... if your feedback happens when you STOP playing, even though you're desparately damping the strings and the body of the bass ... it might just be the bass drum skins with no pedal stopping them.
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Or the toms. This happens a lot. I've actually turned on my tuning mute and it still rings so I know it's not me. Problem is, it's usually activated when you hit the note the drum is tuned to. Usually if you're using a house sound guy they automatically assume it's the bass and commence ruining your tone while doing nothing to eliminate the ringing toms and you still have to deal with it. If you tell the soundguy they often think "don't tell me how to do my job!" and if you tell the drummer to dampen his drums they usually get pissed off. Awesome.
 
#58
The last "loud" gig I had to play, the soundguy actually had more "note" dialed into the kick drum than on my bass. I watched a bunch of videos of it afterward (lots of people filming that day) and for quite a few songs every note I played sounded like a C# as a result. :\
I'd hate to see how that would've gone down if feedback had also been an issue..

More back to the topic though - I've had the same experiences with odd things turning out to be the culprit. I just only recently realized that the lead coming from my fingerboard pickup has been actually causing most of my feedback up til now. It seems the chain goes like this: Fingerboard vibrates a tiny bit, which sets off the pickup lead which apparently has it's own resonant frequency and takes off. Being directly attached to the pickup element it gets LOUD when it happens. I had just been leaving it hanging loose - I've now got it sandwiched between some foam and stuck to the underside of the 'board. Much better.

I think the moral here is to definitely not discount looking at things like your afterlength, pickup leads, placement on stage, and even drum resonances as mentioned above. Dealing with these thing is much preferable to me than resorting to damping the top of the bass, taping the f-holes, or anything else that will really mess with your acoustic sound. IMO, YYMV, TGIF, LGTTL etc
 
#59
moles said:
How about one of these?
http://www.presonus.com/products/Detail.aspx?ProductId=19
Odd shape that obviously won't fit in a rack, but you get 3 bands, and the bandwidth goes down to .1.
Hmm - I could probably sell the 32 band graphic for not much less than this would cost me......
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You'll probably notice as soon as you plug it in and start turning knobs: the higher the Q, the narrower the bandwidth and vice versa. So a Q of 0.1 is actually a very broad bell shape. For proper notching you need the highest possible Q values (less frequencies are affected)

Here are a few things I find very useful:

Elevate the cabinet (possibly a small one) all the way to ear level and stand not too far but not too close either. Somehow I find it easier to hear the pitch if the sound can develop in the air a bit.

Only monitor what you need to hear for getting the pitch right. No need to hear sizzling top and warm bottom. Make it ugly but brutally clear. You'll get the warmth from the PA, more than enough usually...
This will drastically reduce the volume on stage.

When using a mix of pickup and microphone, goes without saying that no mic should be monitored on stage, only pickup.

Also reducing the sound sources to a minimum helps "localizing" the sound and avoiding weird phase issues: if you play through an amp, no bass in the wedges, possibly not in your neighbor's either!

When using a Realist, placing is essential! 100% contact between bridge foot and bass' top is a must. You can get quite a lot of sound from it if placed correctly. Not as loud as other pickups, but enough to fill big concert halls.

Ciao

b.
 
#60
I have this same problem feeding back on the D note either open of closed on the a string, i use spiro weichs on an older euro hybrid bass. I use the EA 800 and the NL210 but im a bit of a novice as regards the EQ my pickup is a realist, which sounds great at lower volumes but once you stat to push it the feedback kicks in. Options i am looking at include:

Covering the F Holes

Wrapping the strings between the bride and tailpiece with velcro

Using a magnetic pup for higher volumes

Getting a fishman pro pre (not sure this is any different to using the EQ the amo already has?)

Learning how to use the amps EQ (i have tried and yes you can reduce the feedback but your tone suffers by having drop most of the low mids out.

Any advice would be welcome.


Mike Arnopol said:
Parametric eq. Playing live with Patricia Barber I have to play REAL loud sometimes. A notch filter is a parametric eq with variable "q" or the width of the eq'd frequencies. I'm an endorser for EA and they (finally) sent me a working Micro 300. This little puppy is the s*#t.
I played a LOUD gig and it was fabulous. I have a single rack space 5 band parametric that I love. But with the Micro, I wanted something smaller. So I just lucked out that on Ebay someone was selling a new Fishman Dual Parametric Direct Box/ Pedal. ( now discontinued--hard to find) I snatched it up. My bass, when pushed feeds back badly on the open (or closed) D. And the D is a lot louder than other notes. With the parametric, I can bring down the volume of the D and eliminate the feedback caused by it. And if I do it correctly, I can't tell a thing. Just that my instrument sounds even and doesn't feed back. Badda bing, badda boom----done.
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