Double Bass Stopping Feedback in LOUD Settings

#61
Again, the only way to reduce feedback is a parametric eq. There are a few pedals out there that do this. But it has to be FULLY parametric. You have to be able to adjust the width of what you're attenuating. There is a Russian made 3 band parametric pedal that I saw on Ebay.Looked interesting. On Ebay search for parametric.
 
#63
#64
I picked up a Presonus EQ3B used for 75 bucks last month. Easy solution if you have an effect loop on your amp.

IMO using eq properly to solve a problem like feedback isn't "trickery". It's what it's made for.

Last week I went a step further and picked up a Radial PZ-Pre. Between the phase reversal and the notch filter, the problem is essentially solved for me. I did a smallish arena gig on the weekend (1500 people) on a pretty big stage with a LOUD FOH system, with a carved top bass. No Problems what so ever. :)

Speaking of which... I've been pretty impressed with that bass over the past few weeks. Even with the Realist on it, it's been pretty feedback resistant. The Realist still does that thing where once you're in feedback territory it's All Over, but it's been more manageable than I previously expected.

It's my hybrid Eastman. It's got this big back block underneath the soundpost, extending laterally between the c-bouts. I'm sure this is helping it's ability to be amplified easily.
 
#65
I have to play really freakin loud all the time with a rockabilly band. My old Epiphone B-3 is far to resonant to play loudly with (as is my hybrid flatback). Even with foam in the ff holes, whacker strings, the knee clamp and a Fishman Plat Pro it would start howling. I recently got a CCB just to play loud on and experiment with and I have to say once I cut and installed a second soundpost under the bass foot of the bridge, none of the low end wooooohhhhh is there anymore (I used whatever hardwood dowels they were selling at the arts and crafts store). The only problem I have now is that my pickup itself will feedback and squeal a little if I point it at the tweeter in my cab accidentally. Unfortunately the second sound post completely mutes the thing acoustically (but I didn't buy it with that intention anyways). I have about 10-20% of the original acoustic volume now.

I sometimes have to stand on a very small stage, practically up against my amp. I'm running a Peavey Firebass 700 into genz benz 4x10xb cab for the really loud gigs and I'm able to really crank it up. I can get too loud for the gig before I actually start feeding back now.
I also use the Fishman BP-100 which if you mount it the way it's designed kinda stinks. After a couple years of putting up with its "suckage" (nasal sounding, string noise, clips popping off) and not many other pickups available at the time I actually figured out how to make it sound good. I started out by trying wing mount it. I used the little round felt pads with the sticky backs, the kind for furniture legs, work really well and actually come in the same diameter as the BP-100 elements. I stuck the pads (after compressing them a little with pliers) in the spaces under the bridge wings and slid each element under each wing with the shiny side against the felt. IT WORKED! 8 Years later, I start playing really loud rockabilly and couldn't get enough signal out of the pickup for it to be useful in a really loud setting. So I stacked the elements together (shiny sides against each other) and slid them both into the bass side of the bridge under the wing against the felt pad. WOW!! Super high output (I have to turn my preamp input all the way down to almost 0 now and the little red light still comes on), tight focused bass and enough high end to dial in a nice click for the rockabilly stuff. Sounds better than ever for the jazz gigs too. I even bought another BP-100 when I got another bass as I haven't found a better alternative for high volume or versatility even with all these new pickups out now.
It's also important, in my case at least, to mount the jack without using that stupid string bracket thing. I use a cable clamp from the hardware store that's lined in rubber. The E string get strung through and passes through the small holes of the clamp. When up to pitch, squeezes the clamp closed around the jack. The jack is then hidden behind the tailpiece and cannot be ripped off the strings when unplugging or tripping over a cable.

Just some stuff I've done after playing A LOT of really loud gigs.
 
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#66
The notch filters are really works, if it's not enough in your band, you have to consider using electric upright. Because If you really avoid all the feedback dangerous factor on an acoustic upright, you haven't got acoustic bass sound anymore.
 
#68
Even with Electric upright or electric bass there will still be resonant frequencies, and interactions with drum and vocal mics etc. If the drummers floor tom is tuned to Bb and you play that note on an E bass it will still seem like feedback. I think that people tend to blame most low end feedback on an upright just because it is there and ignore the real problem of feeding back drum and vocal mics. Simply switching to Electric won't eliminate all feedback related headaches.

I toured with an Eminence bass for several years because I had to fly to lots of gigs. I still much prefer to play a real acoustic bass. AND, most of my gigs are super loud, Rock bars, Hockey arenas, outdoor festivals with 20,000 people etc. IMO, an acoustic bass properly dampened, and with the use of phase reversal, notch filters and high pass filters will still sound more acoustic than an electric upright. And it will feel better to play, and you won't have to explain what the instrument you're playing is to people who won't understand anyway.

I'm really happy with my current setup. I have a Chadwick folding bass that is great for flying. I have gut-a-like strings (from slap-strings.de) that are like gut or whackers that won't ring forever so it dampens the resonance a bit. I also have foam or cloth wedged behind the tailpiece and the leather tie strings from my bow quiver mute the afterlengths of the strings. The folding bass has a door in the back so I taped some foam to the inside of the f holes which works great. I've seen people rig up "invisible" f hole covers on regular basses as well. I also use a radial tonebone pz pre for phase reversal and notch and high pass filters when needed.

Even with all this I think it still sounds more acoustic and better to my ear than an EUB. And it feels better to play if you're used to acoustic upright.

This is for a loud country band though. If i was in slayer it may not work as good, but I've played festivals with mainstream country/rock bands where my bass was as loud as any E bass there with no problems.

This is all my humble opinion though, do whatever works for you, I'm just saying it is possible if you're willing to put some work into it and deal with the headaches.
 
#70
kurt said:
Oh yeah, start with your eq flat. If you want more low end, cut some of the highs and turn up the master volume. And keep the gain low, use the master volume to get louder. Overdriving the preamp by turning the gain too high or turning the eq settings too high is a sure fire way to create feedback (and maybe blow your speakers).
Click to expand...

This
 
#71
Dear friends in low frequencies,
I have what I think is a novel hypothesis about feedback when amplifying a double bass: Feedback that we often experience happens *primarily* (not exclusively) because the speaker cabinet, when placed on the floor, vibrates the floor, and the ground-born vibrations are transmitted through the endpin to vibrate the body, which can then drive the body, bridge, & pup. Here's my experiment:
I set up on a stage that I knew from experience to be feedback-prone. I played a set w the cabinet (1x12") on the floor and fought the feedback by the usual techniques (filtering, foam, knee etc etc). On the next set, I put the cabinet on my "Rock-n-Roller Multi Cart", and voila, no feedback. I could crank up the volume, flatten the EQ, remove the foam - still no feedback. The same effect was achieved w a chair - no special gear necessary *as long as the cabinet was off the floor*.
Yes, the bass response is weaker, but that could be compensated-for by increasing the bass knob from minus to 0 (flat). So the "rule" that says to always put the cabinet on the floor can be a double edged sword.
The setup for my crude experiment: double bass w Fishman Full Circle > LR Baggs GigPro > Genz Benz Shuttle 6.0 > Bergantino HT112 cab. Same set up w cab on the floor or off.

Walk n roll!
T^3
 
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#73
vin*tone said:
^^ Yup. The most effective feedback prevention I've found is using a powered wedge on a speaker stand. Set it up behind you at head height and you can play some pretty loud environments.
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I totally agree, but i often have loud gigs with no PA support so I like the floor coupling to get nice low end out into the room
 
#74
If we go back to the original post, I think the culprit is his looper pedal. I gig with a 1000 watt Focus head and a couple of cabinets as my main setup and am parked right next to me all night. I can correct almost all of my feedback issues with the notch filter, but last week I had a delay pedal in the mix and no matter what I did, it created a mess of feedback every time it was engaged; remove it from the chain and the whole thing worked perfect.
 
#75
All the advice on this thread backs up my personal experience. The one thing I haven't seen discussed is stage vibrations being conducted by the end pin and vibrating the bass body. It's a real problem with my bass and kick drums and hollow stages cause a lot of issues. I often employ the high tech 'bass in a shoe' technique. Resting the end pin in a soft soled shoe often takes the edge off the stage impact. I'd like to get a proper acoustic damping mat.
 
#77
That is a very legitimate concern and possibly why i don't have as many feedback issues. My main gig bass has one of my shop prototype endpins that is 1 1/8" od thinwall hollow titanium tube that likely reacts a lot differen than your typical setup. The new bach are similar dimension oversized carbon fiber tubes that have their own voice.

j.
www.condino.com
www.kaybassrepair.com
 
#78
Thanks to all of you for your thoughtful feedback (yeah, intended) on my little "hypothesis". The solution seems to be (1) uncouple the cabinet from the floor or (2) uncouple the endpin from the floor. Approach 2, using an isolating mat or a shoe (DB SlideFunk), has an advantage because the audience will hear the floor-coupled bass enhancement but the endpin won't.
 
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#79
I'll try one of cellist disks and rubber solution. It probably doesn't help that I'm really tall and there is a lot of end pin to freely vibrate. When I had a solid wood pin it was terrible for stage bounces.
 
#80
TCube said:
Thanks to all of you for your thoughtful feedback (yeah, intended) on my little "hypothesis". The solution seems to be (1) uncouple the cabinet from the floor or (2) uncouple the endpin from the floor. Approach 2, using an isolating mat or a shoe (DB SlideFunk), has an advantage because the audience will hear the floor-coupled bass enhancement but the endpin won't.
Click to expand...

T Cube,
All good things to try, if it hasn't been mentioned, taking a piece of surgical tubing and threading it trough the after length of the strings, can be very effective as well. Since my Tonehenges End Pin is aluminum,
I don't seem to have the problems with end pin resonance that others do. I have also found that having an amp with a decent amount of head room and very effective EQ, really helps with the problem as well. Since
quite a few of the more attractive micro amps were developed more with EB in mind. You have to look carefully at what you're purchasing in terms of the way the EQ works, IME, IMHO the Tecamp Puma, EA Doubler,
Acoustic Image, Headway EDB-2 pre amp, PJB, and older GK 200MB, and 200 RCB, have/had the best EQ's for Double Bass. There are certianly other amps that will do as well, but they just don't seem to have what's necessary to EQ a Double Bass. Just my take.

Ric

P.S. rasing your cabinet off the floor should be done judiciously, a little can go a long way, to much and you loose the sound of the instrument. IME it's better to use either the Ampwedge or Gramma platforms.
 
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