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Table Saw Safety
- Thread starter Lonnybass
- Start date
That's a cool name. But I see you've already got it Trademarked. If you want to build and sell these things under that name, go right ahead. You have my permission. You could invest thousands and make hundreds!
I actually didn't want it to roll too easily. That could be troublesome. That front solid foot acts like a brake. It stays still by itself. Lift up lightly on the front handle to roll it around. Pushing on that plywood back stop unloads the front foot and allows it to roll/slide with slight friction. Stop pushing and it stops. Part of the clever design!
Exactly. If one is stupid enough to remove the guards and not use a push stick or try to use table saw the way it's not meant to be used it's not the saw that's dangerous. It's the user that's dangerous. I can't see a way how I could hurt myself with table saw when I follow the safety intructions.
I completely agree, Marko. I mostly stay out of all these discussions praising the SawStop, because I'll make a lot of people mad. Intentional or not, the effect of the SawStop is to encourage tablesaw users to throw away the guards and do dangerous things.
Out in industry all tablesaws have mechanical guards. They have since before the 1940's. They are mandatory and are nearly 100% effective, when used with good practice. In an OSHA-controlled factory, you'll get fired for running a tablesaw without the blade guard.
Unfortunately in smaller non-OSHA shops and home shops, it's this big macho thing to rip the guards off and throw them away. All kinds of excuses: Can't work with that thing on there; My Grandpa never used them, etc., etc. And they puff out their chests and saw away....until the day they slip and cut their fingers off.
The SawStop is an ingenious device technically, but it encourages this bad behavior.
I believe that woodworking machines should all have mechanical blocker-type guards. Simple sturdy non-electronic things that physically prevent your fingers from getting into the blade. And anyone using the machine must accept that they must use good safe practices on it. There is a responsibility to using tools and machines. No exceptions.
We should not be trying to build idiot-proof tools. Idiots shouldn't be using tools.
That just breeds a dumber generation of idiots...
In case you're wondering what level of idiot I'm talking about, this is a cutting board that I've never removed the wrapping from.
That last line kills me every time. It's an F'ng cutting board!
I’ve always said that when you make something idiot-proof they just build a better idiot.
That said, I like the idea of Sawstop and I have no objections to the technology. I don’t think that there’s anything wrong with an additional layer of safety. The caveat is that I also don’t believe that it’s a substitute for good practices.
I completely understand your point; I’ve used saws with few (or no) safety features for most of my life without injury because of prudent working habits and a healthy respect for the machine but I also know people much more experienced than myself who got injured despite using all the requisite safety features because of a momentary lapse of concentration. I can’t know for certain that I’m immune to such a lapse. …perhaps until it’s too late.
Accidents do happen. I don’t see any harm in a new technology that might catch a dropped ball.
Just for the record, my suggestion for adding another layer of safety to a tablesaw (or other saw) is to add a blade-stopping interlock to the guard. A good workable mechanical guard over the blade. A disk brake that quickly stops the saw blade. And a sensor system that detects if the guard is moved or raised, or human flesh has moved into a zone around the blade.
The point is that it shuts off the motor and stops the blade if you don't have the guard in proper place or if something human-like gets too close to the blade. It forces you to use the guard properly and keep your hands away from the blade. If you don't, it shuts down, stops the blade, and refuses to saw.
The Saw Stop fires its blade brake when it detects that flesh has actually touched the blade. It has to stop the blade extremely quickly, damaging the brake unit and the saw blade. The system I'm suggesting would have more time to react, so it could shut off the motor and stop the blade without any damage to anything. After you've checked the guard and removed your fingers from the zone around the blade, you could restart the saw and continue.
That's what I'd like to see as a secondary safety system. Part of its function is to force you to use the primary safety system, the mechanical guard.
If you could work out the sensor zone thing, this type of safety system could also be used on other machines like bandsaws and jointers and chop saws.
The point is that it shuts off the motor and stops the blade if you don't have the guard in proper place or if something human-like gets too close to the blade. It forces you to use the guard properly and keep your hands away from the blade. If you don't, it shuts down, stops the blade, and refuses to saw.
The Saw Stop fires its blade brake when it detects that flesh has actually touched the blade. It has to stop the blade extremely quickly, damaging the brake unit and the saw blade. The system I'm suggesting would have more time to react, so it could shut off the motor and stop the blade without any damage to anything. After you've checked the guard and removed your fingers from the zone around the blade, you could restart the saw and continue.
That's what I'd like to see as a secondary safety system. Part of its function is to force you to use the primary safety system, the mechanical guard.
If you could work out the sensor zone thing, this type of safety system could also be used on other machines like bandsaws and jointers and chop saws.
Well, it's like I've always said. "When you think you have it mastered and no fear, count your fingers. Not necessarily about fingers here, but think the same of a chainsaw. Good luck with that! All saws are and always will be dangerous regardless of safety attachment. You just can't fix careless or stupid!
I havent seen anybody who owns a Sawstop removing the guard, that would be like thinking its ok to drive like a lunatic because you have an airbag. You cant fix Stupid. Thats effectively what the blade brake is, an airbag for saws, the idiot proofing of last resort. The "detection field" idea is cool, im sure the tech already exists, but based on the glacial pace of tablesaw improvement, I'm not holding my breath.. Again, a destroyed blade and cost of a new brake cartridge is a small fraction of the cost of one emergency room visit, and I consider my fingers priceless. The tech will always improve, but the industry resistance to making tablesaws safer to save a few bucks on production cost is pretty indefensible.
Edit:
The local Maker Space has recently bought two Sawstop cabinet saws. I asked the shop manager why: Liability. No brainer for institutions.
Edit:
The local Maker Space has recently bought two Sawstop cabinet saws. I asked the shop manager why: Liability. No brainer for institutions.
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It seems fairly common in the Youtube woodworking world. One guy explained that he does it for videos to make it easier to show what he's doing, then puts the guard back on afterwards. Not the decision I would make, but understandable.
I recently moved into a 55+ community, and they have an extensive woodworking shop. I may end up selling all my power tools. In any event, all the table saws feature the Sawstop system.
I remember driving up to Vasquez Rocks, and my GPS couldn't find the entrance (turns out there's one either side of the park, and I was trying to find the one that was better concealed than The Batcave).
I noticed this old guy mowing his lawn, so I parked on the other side of the road, and walked up to his fence to ask him directions.
We had a nice chat, and he pointed me in the right direction, and then said "You might have noticed my thumb is my big toe."
I hadn't.
Turned out he'd managed to lop off his thumb, whilst using his table saw.
Then, get this... He lent his table saw to his next door neighbour, and he did the exact same thing.
The neighbour was a Fireman, and losing his thumb meant losing his career - so they decided to transplant his big toe to his hand, so he again had an opposable thumb.
The surgery was a succes, and his career was saved.
That convinced the old guy to get the same surgery done.
I hope they had that cursed table saw exorcised, and buried in the desert.
I noticed this old guy mowing his lawn, so I parked on the other side of the road, and walked up to his fence to ask him directions.
We had a nice chat, and he pointed me in the right direction, and then said "You might have noticed my thumb is my big toe."
I hadn't.
Turned out he'd managed to lop off his thumb, whilst using his table saw.
Then, get this... He lent his table saw to his next door neighbour, and he did the exact same thing.
The neighbour was a Fireman, and losing his thumb meant losing his career - so they decided to transplant his big toe to his hand, so he again had an opposable thumb.
The surgery was a succes, and his career was saved.
That convinced the old guy to get the same surgery done.
I hope they had that cursed table saw exorcised, and buried in the desert.
Wow! This is the first time I have ever been interested in moving to such a place.
WOW!
I want to live somewhere like that someday!
And oddly enough, it was only after we moved, and I started looking into the various clubs and facilities they have, that I discovered the Woodworking Club and shop. They even sell wood there, including special orders, and have a huge selection of tools, from CNC routers, to sanders, lathes, band saws - the list goes on. We stopped by there yesterday and we were given a tour. I was drooling. There were even some machines that I never heard of. The down side, you have to take 9 hours of instruction - 3 days of 3 hour classes - before you are "certified" to use the equipment, and some machines require additional instruction before you can use them. And yeah, there's an annual fee in addition to the HOA fees to use the shop. It's pretty reasonable though.
Dang! Nice Shop! Do they ration your shop time, or can you use it pretty much whenever? That follows the trend of institutions adopting Sawstop, they can't afford not to based on the potential liability alone. I agree that common sense is the best safety mechanism, but EVERYONE has that momentary lapse of attention sometime. If you lose concentration in a car, you might total it, hence the airbag. I can't see a downside to it. I think about tablesaws the way I think about firearms: Always Loaded. I have yet to shoot myself in the foot or saw my fingers off. Now if they can just add similar tech to jointers, which scare me more than tablesaws.
Yeah, they have a jointer there that's like 10 feet long and 18 inches wide. The biggest I ever saw. All high end equipment, like Jet and other high end brand names.
Anyway, yeah, the time is rationed. You can volunteer to do monitoring or work the desk and/or wood store to increase your monthly hours though.
My parents live in a facility that also has a wood shop club, but it's basically a bunch of old guys (and some gals) that like to hang out and futz around with wood. All of the tools are donated by residents when they move in if it's nicer than what they already have (and they can make room for it). And they have some pretty nice industrial class tools.
Most of their time is spent fixing random antique furniture. They often fix up pieces and then sell them is a small store they have (great 2nd hand stuff)....
I hope to move somewhere nearly that nice when I can retire...
Most of their time is spent fixing random antique furniture. They often fix up pieces and then sell them is a small store they have (great 2nd hand stuff)....
I hope to move somewhere nearly that nice when I can retire...