Thoughts on Auditions

[FullumMusic]

"Semi-pro" is a precarious area.

Expectations above the amateur-hobby level, for people to just "do their job", learn their songs, and show up ready to go; Not pro ($$$) enough to make the band a high enough priority in life to do the things that are required to not be an amateur-hobby band. Even if everyone's intentions are pro-grade intentions, the realities of life prevent it.

I'm in a sorta similar spot with the project i'm trying to start. By day-job, i'm still a "Music/Audio Professional," but not specifically a "Professional Musician" anymore. Now i work on the technology side of music & audio, but i still want to play music, and i want the project to be treated professionally enough with good musicians. I still want to be proud of the music i make.

There lies the conundrum:

It's not going to be a "Pro" enough project to attract pro musicians doing it for a living. Pro musicians need to rely on the gig, and no matter how serious i take the band, i'm not giving up my day job for it. But that leaves me with a pool of possible musicians i know who are essentially hobbyists, many of whom are hobbyists because they're not really good enough or reliable enough to be pros.

I do have the luxury of being able to make music alone. I produce electronic music. I can perform electronic music alone. I can DJ too. But, i really want to do a project with physical instruments, and i have a very specific idea of what i want to do.

Had 7 auditions/trials over the last 2-3 years. Mix of originals and cover bands. Only 1 of those chose another player over me, I said no thanks to 1 of them, & the rest fizzled out due to the band’s vagueness/bullsh*t/lack of direction.

Each one has involved working on a chunk of material. The originals could be creative, the covers sometimes a pain to study note by note. So I’m putting in a fair amount of time to prepare for audition & follow ups.

I’ve had 2 sessions with the latest project. The first was OK, friendly chat afterwards, they seem pleased enough. The current bass player is doing a handover and was sat watching me – no pressure!

But the 2nd time was quite different. The band leader was kind of officious & standoffish and the rest didn’t say much to me. I felt like the stranger in the room – it was a freezing cold hall, & I couldn’t relax into it. Made a few slips but they also made their own mistakes (and they’ve been gigging the songs for ages). They are now ‘going to let me know’….

I’d got myself quite nervous about it all and came away pretty drained.

I just question why am I putting myself through this again & again?



Bottom line is I set my goal 3 yrs ago, to getting into a decent semi pro band, away from the amateur chaos. But then the amateur days were the most fun! We were naïve and had great laughs. But I then fell into role of 'band organiser' because no one else could be arsed. Sorting everything out, rather than concentrated on my playing, didnt get enough support.


I just feel a bit disillusioned with the ‘trying to join pro bands scenario’….I'm 62 now (although fit and young for my age), so feel if it doesn't click soon, it will be too late.

Auditions are just weird. You’re trying to focus on the music, atmosphere is somewhat ‘strained’. Then you’re also having to assess the others while they are assessing you – a lot of headspace?!! So many questions going on:

Can you be yourself easily in such situations?

Are you trying to (over) please?

Do you click after such a short time?

Do want to spend time with them?

Is the band solid? Will they last?



Anyone else relate? Feel free to share your experiences.

I'm of a similar opinion as:

That might be your mistake right there. In my experience "semi pro" means "amateurs who decided to call themselves pro to feel good about themselves"

I might not go as far as to call them all amateurs with upgraded names. But, without getting into the debate about defining Pro vs Semi-pro vs Amateur/Hobby, Semi-pro is a fuzzy area of not reliable enough of a gig for professional musicians who will prioritize the project like it's their job because it is their job. But it's too-high expectations for amateur hobbyists. That's either too-high skill expectations, or too-high dedication and professionalism expectations.

That leaves you with a much smaller pool of musicians who are good enough to be pro, who can place the project high enough on their priority list (behind say, day job and family, etc.), who also don't want to go full-time pro musician and also aren't just hobbyists.

And unfortunately i find myself in a similar spot with the project(s) i'm trying to start. I've played pro in the past. But i'm not quitting my music technology based day job that i also love and pays me more than a band will.

Want the project to be good enough to make great music i'm proud of and attract an audience; not quitting my day job; band doesn't provide enough revenue to just put musicians on its payroll. (Well, the band doesn't even exist yet.) Project will take a lot of "pre-production" work before it's even viable to play live or earning money. Musicians in my band and myself should be paid for our work... What to do?

 

[Geogio]

Anyone else relate? Feel free to share your experiences.

Start your own thing, you sound ready. Advertise for a pianist first.
A reeds player (multi woodwind).
A percussionist/kit player (might the hardest to fill) stay away from bashers.
Guitarists are a dime a dozen.
Rehearse
An agent might be needed initially and dependent on your local.

Is a union is required in your area, by all means get situated with that - and is also a great aide in compiling musicians.

At this point in time there has to be a Band Management For Dummies book out there or something similar.

Best of luck!

 

[dbsfgyd1]

Had 7 auditions/trials over the last 2-3 years. Mix of originals and cover bands. Only 1 of those chose another player over me, I said no thanks to 1 of them, & the rest fizzled out due to the band’s vagueness/bullsh*t/lack of direction.

Each one has involved working on a chunk of material. The originals could be creative, the covers sometimes a pain to study note by note. So I’m putting in a fair amount of time to prepare for audition & follow ups.

I’ve had 2 sessions with the latest project. The first was OK, friendly chat afterwards, they seem pleased enough. The current bass player is doing a handover and was sat watching me – no pressure!

But the 2nd time was quite different. The band leader was kind of officious & standoffish and the rest didn’t say much to me. I felt like the stranger in the room – it was a freezing cold hall, & I couldn’t relax into it. Made a few slips but they also made their own mistakes (and they’ve been gigging the songs for ages). They are now ‘going to let me know’….

I’d got myself quite nervous about it all and came away pretty drained.

I just question why am I putting myself through this again & again?



Bottom line is I set my goal 3 yrs ago, to getting into a decent semi pro band, away from the amateur chaos. But then the amateur days were the most fun! We were naïve and had great laughs. But I then fell into role of 'band organiser' because no one else could be arsed. Sorting everything out, rather than concentrated on my playing, didnt get enough support.


I just feel a bit disillusioned with the ‘trying to join pro bands scenario’….I'm 62 now (although fit and young for my age), so feel if it doesn't click soon, it will be too late.

Auditions are just weird. You’re trying to focus on the music, atmosphere is somewhat ‘strained’. Then you’re also having to assess the others while they are assessing you – a lot of headspace?!! So many questions going on:

Can you be yourself easily in such situations?

Are you trying to (over) please?

Do you click after such a short time?

Do want to spend time with them?

Is the band solid? Will they last?



Anyone else relate? Feel free to share your experiences.

For me I’ve always considered bands as a business, an audition a job interview. Throughout my life, There were a few instances I didn’t get the job, it didn’t stop me from looking. It’s my job to prove I’m the right guy for the job, and it’s their job to make me feel comfortable that I can succeed in that role.

One thing I can assure you there are a lot more lot more menial dead end jobs, or jobs no sane person would want in this world than there are of highly paid jobs that everybody would want.

Reading your post, I’m thinking maybe you don’t want this gig. For me, when there is a 100% change in the attitudinal temperature in a room like what you experienced, that is one heck of a flashing warning sign. Me, If I was seriously entertaining being in the band I would flat out say, “Hey, somebody die here? Something changed since I was here last time. What’s going on?. If there is no plausible answer, I’d just pack an go home. Trust me, even if there was a plausible explanation, emotional instability is not an environment I want to be a part of.

One more discouraging word. Good gigs are hard to come by. It gets more difficult as you age. There may not be a correlation between age and performance, there is a relatability issue with your band mates as well as the paying customers as you age. I’m about 10 years older than you, and still can play at a high level.

I look about 10 years younger than I am. I got my first inkling of this when I was in my late 40s in a band where the oldest member was under 25. It took them all of 2 rehearsals for them to start calling me “Pops”. What I’ve found over the last 15 years is band mates seem to be getting younger, and customers my age don’t go out as much.

Frankly, I have no interest at this point in gigging much. I do like recording and fortunate enough to have a core of musicians that really enjoy it as well. It also can be done without travel.

Anyway chin up and move. Best wishes.

 

[Pep]

Had 7 auditions/trials over the last 2-3 years. Mix of originals and cover bands. Only 1 of those chose another player over me, I said no thanks to 1 of them, & the rest fizzled out due to the band’s vagueness/bullsh*t/lack of direction.

Each one has involved working on a chunk of material. The originals could be creative, the covers sometimes a pain to study note by note. So I’m putting in a fair amount of time to prepare for audition & follow ups.

I’ve had 2 sessions with the latest project. The first was OK, friendly chat afterwards, they seem pleased enough. The current bass player is doing a handover and was sat watching me – no pressure!

But the 2nd time was quite different. The band leader was kind of officious & standoffish and the rest didn’t say much to me. I felt like the stranger in the room – it was a freezing cold hall, & I couldn’t relax into it. Made a few slips but they also made their own mistakes (and they’ve been gigging the songs for ages). They are now ‘going to let me know’….

I’d got myself quite nervous about it all and came away pretty drained.

I just question why am I putting myself through this again & again?



Bottom line is I set my goal 3 yrs ago, to getting into a decent semi pro band, away from the amateur chaos. But then the amateur days were the most fun! We were naïve and had great laughs. But I then fell into role of 'band organiser' because no one else could be arsed. Sorting everything out, rather than concentrated on my playing, didnt get enough support.


I just feel a bit disillusioned with the ‘trying to join pro bands scenario’….I'm 62 now (although fit and young for my age), so feel if it doesn't click soon, it will be too late.

Auditions are just weird. You’re trying to focus on the music, atmosphere is somewhat ‘strained’. Then you’re also having to assess the others while they are assessing you – a lot of headspace?!! So many questions going on:

Can you be yourself easily in such situations?

Are you trying to (over) please?

Do you click after such a short time?

Do want to spend time with them?

Is the band solid? Will they last?



Anyone else relate? Feel free to share your experiences.

First of all something strange was going on in that second audition. Perhaps during the initial auditions you were there before someone else they liked so they warmed up to you. Then later on in the initial auditions they found another player that was a good fit as well.
Rather than get your hopes up they've distanced themselves for the time being until a decision is made.
Don't get discouraged!
I'm 75 and in Dec 2023 I auditioned for a local band that has been around for years and got the job. It's been a lot more fun than some of the other bands I've been associated with. Some were much to serious (almost anal) so a lot of the fun disappeared. Sometimes it's difficult be accepted by all the members in a band. I've gotten along great with all except the keyboard player. Occasionally his left hand drifts down into the areas where I play and the bass notes will clash. I thought he might be just screwing with me so I just drop out if that happens. The punch disappears and he moves back up in his area of the keys. Things are fine now.

Some advice on auditions. Don't try to go out of your way to please them. Simply be yourself and relax. You've been down these roads before so you need to loosen up a bit. If the vibes aren't there and you don't seem to be clicking with them, move on. You'll eventually land where you're supposed to be.
Don't give up!

 

[Shenron]

Anyone else relate? Feel free to share your experiences.

Unless I am forgetting something, the only one time I had an audition for a band I was in my early 20s, and went there only because my guitar teacher really pushed me to. They actually liked me (on guitar) but I didn't like them (for non-musical reasons) so I ended up turning their offer down.

Otherwise I never answered ads, and neither I participated auditioning others. I simply prefer to initiate playing together with people I already know. And yes that can certainly mean to have a sort of trial period that can also end in not keep playing together, but I don't like something that feels like a do-or-die exam or a contest among candidates.

But that said, I am and will always be a proud amateur, not looking for a job position.

 

[SunByrne]

I've had exactly one audition, local Bowie tribute that my wife and I go see whenever they have a gig and we aren't otherwise scheduled.

I was certainly nervous going in—my first audition, after all—but it was SUPER fun. Cool guys, great conversation, and it was tremendous fun to play with them. Just locked in with the drummer (good consistent drummer, easy to lock in with) and had fun playing the songs.

I didn't get the gig (they went with a guy who plays with most of them in another tribute band) but it was a great experience. We still go to their gigs and are still friendly with them.

Clearly, not all auditions are like that.

 

[PhatBottomBass1]

I have a few audition stories...

A referral from another Bass player to the vocalist and a guitar player who came to my apartment in Austin and knocked on the door. Came in and ran me some original tracks, we talked and kicked it a bit in the living room and it was done. The guitarist ended up becoming an A list Country Rock-Star after this bands lead singer imploded over the guitarists' wanting my last drummer to come onboard, too.

The only gig that I never got that I wanted was interesting. I had their original set down, came in and it sounded great. The band went with another guy...fast forward like 10 years...I'm working in a bistro in Austin and the bands lead vocalist came to work there. Had been there a few weeks and one morning he says; "I wanted you, but the other three wanted him." "I think that if we had gone with you, the SONY deal wouldn't have fallen apart."

I meet a good guitar player and we click. I tell the band the first night that I'm not learning a note of your music until I listen to your rehearsal for a few nights. Went great...until the other mental case guitar player just couldn't cope anymore.

Asked a drummer if he could do a Blues-Rock trio gig with only a Bass drum, snare, one cymbal, hi-hat and his bag of tricks? ABSOLUTELY!

Shows up on time, has only what was called for and great attitude. He KILLS IT! We have four engineers hanging in the door ways of the studio space in Austin doing Beck, Hoey and Trower. I'm like - You're in! Turns out he clocked two years at M.I. in LA...

Currently monitoring a real interesting situation that I would like to see happen. I never start a band over the holidays...they are on Bass player #3... chatted with the drummer at a show a couple weeks ago...I'll see how things shape up...

 

[buldog5151bass]

Depends on whether you are looking for a band, or they are looking specifically for YOU. If I was in a band looking for a member, and applicant didn't want to audition, I wouldn't consider them.

 

[PhatBottomBass1]

It's just that not all auditions involve the same old tired song and dance. If you have any self respect and bring something to the table other than a cocktail ...you can find things that you are looking for!

Find good times, good music and great people...

 

[DCErik]

I'm a massive Craigslist audition slut. I'll inevitably be murdered in some stranger's basement, but I truly enjoy getting out and meeting the scene, even if a particular situation doesn't pan out. I'll prepare to the best of my ability in the time I've got available, and will prioritize learning the band's original music if any, dressing the part and having the right tone(s) for the genre they play, etc., so I do try to please, but I'm also upfront about my experience/ability, preferences, and goals. If interest doesn't die during the discussion stage I've had nothing but interesting-to-good times meeting and playing with strangers. The worst is when the discussion drags on, and I'm in the final 2 being considered after multiple chats and video clip exchanges, and then they audition the first of the two and decide they've found the perfect fit before we even get to meet up.

 

[PhatBottomBass1]

Once you buy into the Zen philosophy of "Timing is half of everything", then you stop worrying about a lot of sh*t.

When checks don't bounce, what said is done and you're clicking and creativity is high...ya never know what could happen...

 

[Pocket Dave]

It takes a positive attitude and refusal to take their holding you under a microscope personally. It also takes working very hard to play in a way that makes everyone else sound better.

But first, you might want to vet bands better before agreeing to audition in the first place - Remember you'll be auditioning THEM too.

I start by asking what gigs they have coming up, what there geographic venue range includes, how often they work, how often they rehearse and average scale per gig.

If they have no gigs yet, I ask about their individual experience gigging in the local market and their plan to get working. For me, anything beyond two months would be unacceptable.

But mostly, at 67, I try to avoid bands who have to audition players in favor of those who work enough to have a good network of players and referrals. I put myself out there whenever I have open dates to sub or take pickup gigs; Some of those have turned into good regular gigs for me.

 

[pepj]

I always say that when doing prep work and letting ppl know you are available starts at 3 months..outside of the intizl contact you made when you started this particular journey.

Within 6 months, you should be cherry picking from 5 or 6 offers. If you have done your research...one or two will be a waste of timè and not keepers.
And one good one could turn over a stone to 2 or 3 more.
After 18 months..you'll be streamlining a multitude of 'offers'

Perversely, beware of the guys who want exclusive. They only get that if they offer you enough advance dates but surpringly, some bands just don't understand this.

If you have your skills down, then the biggest filter might be 'age compatibility'
Not much you can do about that..

 

[el murdoque]

Had 7 auditions/trials over the last 2-3 years. Mix of originals and cover bands. Only 1 of those chose another player over me, I said no thanks to 1 of them, & the rest fizzled out due to the band’s vagueness/bullsh*t/lack of direction.

Each one has involved working on a chunk of material. The originals could be creative, the covers sometimes a pain to study note by note. So I’m putting in a fair amount of time to prepare for audition & follow ups.

I’ve had 2 sessions with the latest project. The first was OK, friendly chat afterwards, they seem pleased enough. The current bass player is doing a handover and was sat watching me – no pressure!

But the 2nd time was quite different. The band leader was kind of officious & standoffish and the rest didn’t say much to me. I felt like the stranger in the room – it was a freezing cold hall, & I couldn’t relax into it. Made a few slips but they also made their own mistakes (and they’ve been gigging the songs for ages). They are now ‘going to let me know’….

I’d got myself quite nervous about it all and came away pretty drained.

I just question why am I putting myself through this again & again?



Bottom line is I set my goal 3 yrs ago, to getting into a decent semi pro band, away from the amateur chaos. But then the amateur days were the most fun! We were naïve and had great laughs. But I then fell into role of 'band organiser' because no one else could be arsed. Sorting everything out, rather than concentrated on my playing, didnt get enough support.


I just feel a bit disillusioned with the ‘trying to join pro bands scenario’….I'm 62 now (although fit and young for my age), so feel if it doesn't click soon, it will be too late.

Auditions are just weird. You’re trying to focus on the music, atmosphere is somewhat ‘strained’. Then you’re also having to assess the others while they are assessing you – a lot of headspace?!! So many questions going on:

Can you be yourself easily in such situations?

Are you trying to (over) please?

Do you click after such a short time?

Do want to spend time with them?

Is the band solid? Will they last?



Anyone else relate? Feel free to share your experiences.

For me personally, there are two categories.
1. I don't really know the band, the players and what is going on there, but have been curious enough to get myself into the situation to be invited. I am very relaxed about those. Depending on the material they do, I will prepare at least 2-3 songs, so we can check each other out. If things are going well, they will want to play more, and usually I'm a quick learner and good at faking the parts I don't get immediately, so when they start playing an original song, I often can follow them and be able to play a halfway decent bass part on the second run through the song, which got me the spot more than once.
We sniff each other out and see if our goals and visions align enough to work together. If they don't want me, I usually don't want to be in, too.
Preparing 2-3 songs is maybe half an evening and I learned something, so no biggie.

2. I do know that band and I want in.
Those are a bit harder. I aim to exceed expectations. They tell me to prepare 2 songs and I show up, knowing half their set list, bring equipment I think is appropriate for the band and try my best to invoke the feeling that the smart thing to do is hiring me on the spot because all the alternatives are ... not the smart thing to do. I already know I want in, so they assess me and I'm on my best behavior.


However, one thing that has always helped me is this: Those bands I'm looking at usually are busy playing gigs or just starting out, but wanting to get on stage ASAP.
Playing crowds is what I do this for. And getting on stage in front of a crowd, there are scores of people assessing me. The pressure is on, and there's no room for failure. If that is the goal, being in a sound proofed room with less than half a dozen others is a small thing. They usually want me to succeed, too.

 

[Bob_Ross]

So many questions going on:

Can you be yourself easily in such situations?

Are you trying to (over) please?

Do you click after such a short time?

Do want to spend time with them?

Is the band solid? Will they last?

One of the things that I think many musicians can overlook is that, for most of these band audition situations, they're not just auditioning you; you need to use this opportunity to audition them.

Sometimes the answers to ^^^those questions will become clear during the audition...or even before the audition. But sometimes they won't, and so you have to make some assumptions and reach conclusions about all those extra-musical issues. Can you stand to be in a relationship with these people?

There may be some clues that you can pick up on before the audition even starts, and personally, I feel like I've been doing this long enough that I give a lot of weight to those pre-audition clues. E.g., if the bandleader has inconsistent (or non-existent) email habits, or if the charts they send look like they were scrawled on a cocktail napkin by a junior high school dropout, those are red flags that should temper your expectations long before you even set foot in the same room with the musicians you're auditioning for. They may have failed your audition before you ever play a note with them.

Be open-minded, but wary.

 

[Bob_Ross]

Perversely, beware of the guys who want exclusive.

LOL. Reminds me of a Bassist Wanted ad I responded to a while ago. Buried in the middle of their seemingly reasonable list of requirements was this:
>>If you're into playing in multiple bands, move on to the next Craig's List listing.<<

So I wrote to them and stated, up front,
>>Gonna cut to the chase first: Your line about "If you're into playing in multiple bands..." might be a dealbreaker. I'm not a mercenary, but I am a talented player with lots of diverse interests, and I'm not going to stop playing with a variety of players or limit my opportunities just because one band wants some kind of loyalty or fealty or exclusive commitment. I'm a responsible professional so I know how to juggle schedules and prioritize. (E.g., gigs trump all, etc.) If you're looking for someone who's only going to play in your band and never gig or jam or rehearse or frolic with other musicians, I'm not interested in being in your band.<<

Naturally, they never wrote/called back. So I guess we both dodged a bullet.

 

[Pocket Dave]

Perversely, beware of the guys who want exclusive. They only get that if they offer you enough advance dates but surpringly, some bands just don't understand this.

Yep.

Even my regular band that works most Fridays/Saturdays allows me to seek other gigs on open dates & actually encourages it. BL wants to keep everyone happy and sharp. Nothing keeps a player sharper than staying busy.

BTW, friend of mine has played guitar with a major touring legacy act for 25 years, is on a contingency fee when off the road, even has health insurance. When not touring with this band, he plays and tours regionally with his own band. Not a problem; Main band encourages it.

Maybe others have different experiences; In my little world, this kind of positive attitude is the mark of successful bands. If you feel differently, I'm not going to consider you unprofessional or a hack; Your band's probably just not a good fit.

 

[Billyears IV]

One of the things that I think many musicians can overlook is that, for most of these band audition situations, they're not just auditioning you; you need to use this opportunity to audition them.

Sometimes the answers to ^^^those questions will become clear during the audition...or even before the audition. But sometimes they won't, and so you have to make some assumptions and reach conclusions about all those extra-musical issues. Can you stand to be in a relationship with these people?

There may be some clues that you can pick up on before the audition even starts, and personally, I feel like I've been doing this long enough that I give a lot of weight to those pre-audition clues. E.g., if the bandleader has inconsistent (or non-existent) email habits, or if the charts they send look like they were scrawled on a cocktail napkin by a junior high school dropout, those are red flags that should temper your expectations long before you even set foot in the same room with the musicians you're auditioning for. They may have failed your audition before you ever play a note with them.

Be open-minded, but wary.

That's part of my point. It's one thing focusing on the music and then also trying to gauge if these are people that you want to hang with.....

I'm not good on first impressions. I'm a warm friendly type and can get unsettled if people are reserved or 'off'.

The social easy atmosphere is important to me.

 

[Billyears IV]

Thanks for all your tips & sharing experiences.

I didn't get the gig.

They said they didn't think I'd reach the standard quickly enough.
Hands up I didn't play Uptown Funk tight. Don't like that track anyway.
Forgot a bridge section in another song.

I did not enjoy the 2nd rehearsal. So cold in the room, my head went blank & fingers tight. I don't feel it was a fair situation, with the bass player sat gasping at me. The band made a few errors too.

So on reflection, I'm OK with it. Not the band/people for me. I can see that it would have been about getting covers down note for note. No room for interpretation or improv, which I enjoy more. Didn't like the band leader much.

I've got a keys/synth player that I've jammed with, who I'll hook up with again. Original ideas, using beats & electronic clips. See if we can get a guitarist on board, get funky.....

Essentially music is a hobby. It would be cool to get to paid gigs level, but it has to be fun for motivation. Doing covers only, then I'd be playing the exact same thing again and again and again....

Cheers guys.

 

[Pocket Dave]

That's part of my point. It's one thing focusing on the music and then also trying to gauge if these are people that you want to hang with.....

I'm not good on first impressions. I'm a warm friendly type and can get unsettled if people are reserved or 'off'.

The social easy atmosphere is important to me.

I felt the same way for a long time.

Then I started subbing, and randomly I'd find myself playing with someone who was reserved or maintaining what felt like an unwarranted watchful eye. Sharing the stage with players like that thickened my skin quickly, leading me to a not-my-rodeo, not-my-clowns attitude: I figured as long as I showed up prepared, there was no need to let someone else's reservations become my problem; If they had a criticism to share, I'd listen, but I wasn't going to waste energy trying to read their minds or reading between the lines.

A funny thing happened as a result - In a couple of those sub gigs for one band, there was a guy who seemed hyper-critical.

Then when the BL offered me the job full-time, it turns out the hyper-critical guy was the one who recommended he hire me. Go figure.