Listening to great organists playing walking bass can be a truly humbling experience. Also a good choice for transcribing.
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Walking bass: looking for "stay calm and thump on" advice
- Thread starter Bass Momma
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Listening to great organists playing walking bass can be a truly humbling experience. Also a good choice for transcribing.
I started out in blues (well, when you pick up a bass for the first time at 64... ) but as my education is progressing, I'm getting more and more into jazz. At this point, though, I can play blues, and jazz is something I'm working towards. Interesting thing is that there was a period where I was finding it very hard to listen to music (embarrassing when you're trying to become a musician), and it was my teacher giving me a vast dump of jazz CDs that seriously got me back into listening.
That version of Cherokee is one of my play along practice songs.
I dream about someone calling it out randomly at a jam. Lol
But it’s not really something I genuinely “improvise” as I pretty mush play it the same every time.
Quite simply, the best way for you to learn how to play quality walking bass lines is for your teacher to write them out for you and have you play them. But, even here, there is a catch as most electric bass teachers don't know what a perfectly written walking line consists of. I suggest that you go to an upright jazz player instead of an electric bass player to learn this style.
Cheers!
Cheers!
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You seem to have a lot of theory down which is great. However, you don't seem to have much practical application of theory. It looks like you need to get out and play with other musicians either at a jam each week or in a garage band. Your walking bass skills will improve greatly once you put them to use in a live setting. At least that is what worked for me. I have no theory to speak of yet I can go to a blues jam and hold my own just following along. I have even done this at a jazz jam, playing old standards. Get out and play. Also, as was previously mentioned, play along with recordings. When you listen to the radio, train your ear to listen to the bass line. Let it sink in and when you are playing at a jam or with friends, it will come to you. It looks like you are definitely on the right track, you just need to get out and put your theory to practice. Good luck and keep thumpin'. 
It sounds like you have three separate problems:
- I am SO SLOW at picking these pieces up.
- If I take a chord chart (ie, not following bass notation, just me improvising for each chord) I … well… I believe the correct term is that I SUCK!
- Similarly, I also write songs, and am very poor at coming up with good basslines to melody-type songs (ie not blues/funk sort of things).
For 2 - Don't just listen to walking lines; transcribe and study them. I listened and learned a lot of Ray Brown. How does he get from the I to the IV? There are a lot of ways, chromatic tones, scale tones, chord tones; go to the the IV above, or the IV below, etc. You'll get a lot more out of transcribing it yourself than if someone just hands it to you.
For 3 - if you do 1 and 2, three will take care of itself.
I always wonder if I'm missing something when I hear how someone has a great and wonderful teacher and then they come on the internet asking advice from a bunch of strangers with unknown qualifications. What does your teacher say?
@Bass Momma There is a ton of great advice and insight in these posts. And you asked an awesome question! So, have you taken a step back from theses posts and noticed a central theme? The theme I see is "listen"... Listen to those who, in this case, have mastered the technique and learn what they are doing. The theory behind it is certainly valuable but, you need to develop the technical and improv skill as well. I suggest taking a piece of music that you like which stretches your ability. Learn the part, then pull it apart disecting "why" it works. Next change the part to experiement with the possibilities and ask the qustion; "why did the player choose what they did"? Then move on to another part that stretches you further, and so on.
If you think you cannot do something, then you cannot. Stop listening to any voice, interior or otherwise, that says you can’t do it.
Then do it.
Then do it.
A lot of people are trying to put theory in your head; I'd argue that for some of us, you need to put less theoretical stuff in your head. Turn on the radio. Play along with it. Once you have the chord pattern of a song, try to gracefully transition between the chords with grace notes - 1 or 2 at first, more when that gets easy. You can learn to walk without any math or theory by just doing it - you'll eventually form the patterns in your head where the notes will "fall under your fingers" without conscious thought. That's what you want - automatic, unconsious patterns.
One side note: Walking is sometimes easier on fretless (it's about the only thing that's easier on fretless). For example: if you want to have 2 grace notes between chords (rythmically) , and the chords are a full step apart, you can do "third steps" - assuming the notes are relatively quick, you can adjust intervals so that you get 3 steps where on a fretted bass, there are just 2.
One side note: Walking is sometimes easier on fretless (it's about the only thing that's easier on fretless). For example: if you want to have 2 grace notes between chords (rythmically) , and the chords are a full step apart, you can do "third steps" - assuming the notes are relatively quick, you can adjust intervals so that you get 3 steps where on a fretted bass, there are just 2.
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maybe i did this wrong but often even today i might would follow the lead instrument almost note to note if possible then twist it up. might have had much with me learning walking bass. i do this with all kinds of music.
I had trouble too until it clicked. here is my take:
1.) just listen. sometimes we have trouble learning new styles because we are not immersed enough in it. listen to different player's music and don't worry at first about what they are playing, just enjoy and soak it up
2.) start simple and work your way up. get a set of changes and first start with roots and then progressively get more complex
3.) think of the changes each as a destination. start with root or fifth on those strong beats. In jazz you could play just about any note in between and justify it as a chord tone or color so try stuff and see what it sounds like. again start simple with chord tones and maybe blues walking
4.) write your own parts. this helped me more than learning written parts at first because I wasn't just analyzing I was constructing simple parts that made sense to me then looked at what others did and it made more sense what tricks they they used to spice it up
5.) Stay calm and thump on!
1.) just listen. sometimes we have trouble learning new styles because we are not immersed enough in it. listen to different player's music and don't worry at first about what they are playing, just enjoy and soak it up
2.) start simple and work your way up. get a set of changes and first start with roots and then progressively get more complex
3.) think of the changes each as a destination. start with root or fifth on those strong beats. In jazz you could play just about any note in between and justify it as a chord tone or color so try stuff and see what it sounds like. again start simple with chord tones and maybe blues walking
4.) write your own parts. this helped me more than learning written parts at first because I wasn't just analyzing I was constructing simple parts that made sense to me then looked at what others did and it made more sense what tricks they they used to spice it up
5.) Stay calm and thump on!
Great.
It will. Just give it time. Having a model in your head of what you're trying to achieve is essential. Thump on!
Who dictates what a "perfect" walking line is. And although it would seem an upright player would know the style better, notes are notes, so a crappy upright player would not be any better.
A perfect walking bass line is a bass line that represents the chord of the moment and its resolution to the next chord. There are perfect ways to learn this skill and it will last you for life. If you aim for perfection (which what great teaching does) you can acquire this for yourself. But, you will have to want this.
Regarding your comment that notes are notes, you could also put this philosophy into language by stating that words are words. Going even further, medicine is medicine. But, without using the right notes, the right words, or the right drugs at the right time, you can see that your philosophy needs a review. Good luck!
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No Jeff. All i see you do is knock teachers. Guess you must have had a bad experience. And there are, a lot of inefficient teachers. But if jazz is an improvised art, and there is a perfect walking line, you would end up repeating it, therefore losing the improvised aspect of it. The notes are notes, refers to the fact that if an upright player keeps to the half tones, he has the same 12 notes as an electric player.
And, as you stated, one person has to want to learn it. All my lack of knowledge in any subject, comes from my own fault to refuse to learn at that time. The STUDENT, has to realize if he is not being taught, or not willing to learn. I take no students, why, because none want to learn. They want to know a few songs, and that's it. They couldn't care if i teach them to read gives them an ability not just on the bass, but other instruments as well. Its sad, but that's the way the want to be.
But go back and read your last threads, how much you bash teachers. I think its horrible. And you may be considered the best player there is, but that doesn't mean you will teach a person any better. In fact, reading the threads you posted about a month ago, the only thing you impart is mumbo jumbo. So hey, if you run across Chuck Mymit, or Morris Goldberg, or Peter Rogine, feel free to tell them how much they suck as teachers.
And, as you stated, one person has to want to learn it. All my lack of knowledge in any subject, comes from my own fault to refuse to learn at that time. The STUDENT, has to realize if he is not being taught, or not willing to learn. I take no students, why, because none want to learn. They want to know a few songs, and that's it. They couldn't care if i teach them to read gives them an ability not just on the bass, but other instruments as well. Its sad, but that's the way the want to be.
But go back and read your last threads, how much you bash teachers. I think its horrible. And you may be considered the best player there is, but that doesn't mean you will teach a person any better. In fact, reading the threads you posted about a month ago, the only thing you impart is mumbo jumbo. So hey, if you run across Chuck Mymit, or Morris Goldberg, or Peter Rogine, feel free to tell them how much they suck as teachers.
If you want to go through bass lines in a slow really well constructed way. Ron Carters book on basslines will take you through it very honestly and nicely and also encourages you to start developing YOUR lines and your voice. So you’re working not only on creating beautifully connected & interesting lines but also unique ones!
He also happens to teach this way. It can be slow and take a lot of patience but it will build the real skills to make good basslines. No bs! When I studied with Mr Carter I felt like I’d started playing bass only the day before. We did so many basics. I didn’t notice the results until 6 months later, I left NY for a bit and realized that my lines had completely evolved. More than I could’ve imagined.
So keep calm, have patience and faith, this is a slow but very rewarding process! The fact that you’re even tackling it is already great. There’s no rush, you’ll get there.
I am not familiar with Ed’s but I will check it out too.
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Thank you for your honest assessment. I knock an educational industry that I see as failing its responsibility to teach students correctly as other instruments are taught. You see me bashing people. I see myself warning them. There ARE superior bass teachers out there (rare as this is.) I thought that people about to pay money to learn might want to know about this and seek them out. No one referred to anti-smoking reports as bashing the tobacco industry, or Martin Luther King's speeches on equality as bashing white people. I would suggest that you review your thinking that this is my intention.
If, by my training and experience, you may decide that I am not correct in my views that the bass educational industry is flawed, then, of course, you should continue being taught as you presently are.
Realize that criticizing a philosophy isn't directly criticizing the people that adhere to that philosophy. Change has always come with a reassessment of accepted principles which often allow for better ones to replace them. I criticize a philosophy in action. If this appears to offend you or others that play the bass, I invite you to calm your emotions and give a little thought to how music has always been taught, and how nearly everybody who were taught correctly improved as players. The problem with bass education is that it isn't a regulated educational system. This means that anyone that declares themselves a bass teacher is hired to educate. But know this: For the most part, schools that hire bass teachers don't hire them for their teaching skills but because they are viewed as good players.
Give this some thought. Best of luck.
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If I may, PERFECT practice makes perfect. Practice and playing often makes for repetition without improvement.
This is good news, not bad. Having experienced poor bass instruction and recognizing that bass educators often aren't what they claim to be, you can seek out a bass teacher that is qualified to teach. If your teacher teaches musical content exclusively, and that content is based in solid harmonic, rhythmic, melodic, and reading principles, you will become three times the bass player that you are inside of three to six months. As you continue in this kind of learning (even as you jam and do your own musical thing) in one year you won't recognize yourself.