What's the current thought on using charts for live shows?

[dbsfgyd1]

Hey folks -

After posting last fall how I'm done being in bands, I just joined a band that plays a fantastic selection of music (Motown, some classic rock, soul). Great players, great people, great tunes. Other than I felt it was a good fit for me, the music is a challenge, and I love having material to work on. It's a real steep learning curve for me, because in my many years of playing I've never really been in this scenario before, in which I need to learn 3 or 4 sets of tunes that have very up front bass lines.

The question is... what's the standard practice on using charts? I practice using ForScore and iRealPro, but everyone else in the group seems to have everything memorized. The band is fine with me using digital charts but I'm curious as to what you all are doing.

No paper charts. Outdoor gigs with wind and paper charts are a bad mix( and don’t bother telling me about clips tape and plastic sheets. You still have get song changes done in 20 seconds or less. You have a 4 pages or more chart, you’re toast) IPad (but get a 12” one) are fine. Just turn down the screen as low as possible or you will look like a ghost.

Eventually you will not need them. My biggest problem learning sets, it’s learning the which name go with which song.

 

[Geddaric]

Orchestras use `em all the time!
I see no problem with charts, maybe because I`m a little more focused on quality of music vs. quality of show. The fact that we have a front man also distracts people enough that the use of a chart is not as distracting as it would be without.

 

[Al Rivera]

Charts are a hindrance, you won't memorize the show while still using them. Also,it's hard to entertain,dance and sing while being glued to your music stand. Unless....your playing jazz or big band,then no one expects you to do anything other than stare at your chart the whole gig.

 

[Matt-J2]

Your band needs a hype man, like Flava Flav or Guy Picciotto. Then nobody will notice the charts!

 

[Tnavis]

Thanks for all the input! I've spent an equal amount of years in both worlds; for original rock and metal, all of the tunes were memorized and had very little variation. For big band jazz and combo, it was all charts or the real book. I've played with some groups where it was something of an even mix; everyone had stands but some folks just had the set list or some rough changes written out on some tunes. I'm still feeling out how the group plays their versions of the songs; do I need to be note for note, or can I be a little more free? And of course, there's also the fact that for some of the tunes (particularly the Motown charts) I'm not gonna mess with Jamerson's lines; they're amazing as written, so I want to play them as close as possible.

 

[Smooth_bass88]

Charts are a hindrance, you won't memorize the show while still using them. Also,it's hard to entertain,dance and sing while being glued to your music stand. Unless....your playing jazz or big band,then no one expects you to do anything other than stare at your chart the whole gig.

How is being able to read music a hindrance? I have made SO MUCH MONEY playing gigs that require musicians who can read. It’s an advantage; you get more work.

 

[Gluvhand]

How is being able to read music a hindrance? I have made SO MUCH MONEY playing gigs that require musicians who can read. It’s an advantage; you get more work.

I don't think he said being able to read was a hindrance. Having to read in a bar band context where there is a certain level of entertainment and interaction expected/required might be.

 

[mrjim123]

I have charted most of the songs for my current band, but I only joined last month and have yet to play my first gig with them. As time goes by I'll rely on them less and less. Six moths or so from now I'll probably ditch them completely. Eventually I'll just have a set list with brief one line cheats for a few songs, e.g.:

piano 2, V, V, Ch, iV, Ch, Ch, outro ...
...
Which, to me, stands for:

Piano only intro (2 measures), verse, verse, chorus, instrumental verse, chorus, chorus, outro

 

[pepj]

Does anyone have any recommended resources for learning to chart songs? I always love a good video if one is available, and written resources are obviously great too.

I've always relied on a lot of memorization when learning songs myself, but charts seem way more practical when working with others.

Start counting and create cheat sheets of your own.

I personally hate vocal chord sheets because they aren't a useful chart for anyone not singing from them. Give me a freakin bar chart.
And don't rely on charts from other members if they don't notate.

 

[Calebmundy]

I probably have 200-300 songs memorized, and I have 1500 charts with quick access. Outside of prof and jazz, I can pretty much chart anything in 1.5 listens. I don’t have time to memorize tunes, unless someone is paying a lot or hiring me for a long term gig, they get me with charts.

I’ve never had anyone complain, and I am usually more prepared than the average player on a gig. That said, the “Nashville way” is to say “great job man,” and never call someone again if they don’t measure up. So I’ll never know if I lost gigs over using charts.

 

[fdeck]

The only answer I can think of, that makes sense, is that it depends on the situation, and the expectations of the band. My main band is a big-band. There's no way that the band is going to memorize 10 new charts every month unless we significantly dumb it down, and then we won't attract good players or an audience.

Reading, without looking like you're constantly staring at your stand, is part of the art form. It can be learned.

 

[tshapiro]

Unless you’re a background player to a highlighted singer (like a big band style) than reading charts distracts from the authenticity of the show. Learn them as soon as possible then get rid of them.

 

[hrodbert696]

Hey folks -

After posting last fall how I'm done being in bands, I just joined a band that plays a fantastic selection of music (Motown, some classic rock, soul). Great players, great people, great tunes. Other than I felt it was a good fit for me, the music is a challenge, and I love having material to work on. It's a real steep learning curve for me, because in my many years of playing I've never really been in this scenario before, in which I need to learn 3 or 4 sets of tunes that have very up front bass lines.

The question is... what's the standard practice on using charts? I practice using ForScore and iRealPro, but everyone else in the group seems to have everything memorized. The band is fine with me using digital charts but I'm curious as to what you all are doing.

I don't think there's a standard answer. It depends very much on the band and the show and what the vibe is supposed to be. I don't think there's any need to have a rigid, ego-driven rule about it (i.e. "Anyone who uses a chart is an inferior musician" blah blah blah).

When I play on my church worship team, we use charts. The goal is not to draw attention to ourselves and be having a wild party on stage, it's different songs every week and minimal rehearsal. There are songs that do come around periodically (a popular tune might come up half a dozen times over a year) but that still means any given time we play it is a couple of months since the previous time.

In my cover band, I don't use charts (though the singer has an ipad with lyrics on her stand). There the point is much more the show, I'm singing and moving around, and we gig several times a month with a repertoire that shifts a bit but has a pretty stable core. Being locked in front of a music stand reading the chart would definitely rain on the parade.

 

[Geogio]

Play piano... you can hide the charts on the piano and nobody will know. Dance bands, big bands, swing bands they all have those takedown music stands that they SIT behind with the outfit's initials on the front and they all use charts.

If you're a big name act and you're doing your own material chances are you've rehearsed for weeks on end and you don't need charts.

But but if your a variety band and changing material often to suit different events or expectations of the event managers then you're probably going to have to have a chart or two. Keep the stage kind of dark or have dark corners of obscurity where stealth music stands are located... dance over there, grab a quick peek, groove on back to your feedback "X" to proundly wail. Wear dark clothing so that you're not so stand out-ish

I think the tablet approach is kind of cool but I don't really want to put out the money for a tablet, and so what do you do?

 

[Aceman]

Same as the old word on it: DON'T

That said, context varies. SO does situations.
- Sudden gig? Use them if you have to. Better than screwing up
- DEEP csatsalog, like 200 songs deep, makes sense
- Sit in gig, sure...

Otherwise man up and learn your parts as soon as possible.

 

[Michedelic]

I’ll have a few crib sheet/chord letter chain things on my I-phone(attached to my mic stand in such a way that I can see it while I look out to the crowd as well)for new/mental block songs, but only a few; it’s mainly for lyric cues on certain songs…ain’t nobody got time to spend memorizing a bunch of gibberish for the money paid.

 

[lefty]

Saw Scofield with Will Lee playing bass…
Uncle Will was using a tablet so yeah…quite alright. The tablet kinda different than a music stand. It’s kinda camouflaged up there.

 

[IanStephenson]

Totally depends on the genre, and expectations of the rest of the band.

Recently started in a symphonic metal band... 12 minute songs, very linear (so not AABA structure), key changes, time signature changes... It's all charted out and I'm reading it. I'm not glued to the chart, so I can look away and interact during simpler sections, but no way I'm memorising it. Maybe if it gets to the stage where its gigging constantly, more of it will sink in, and I'll just be able to wing it but for now playing it correctly is the more important than anything else.

And iPad every time. No way I'll use paper!

 

[lokikallas]

4 hour bar cover band gig, sure. 45 minute tribute set, no way.

 

[Fuzzbass]

Many great comments. If your band is cool with charts, then use them. The more you play the songs, the less reading you'll have to do.

My 2¢: I juggle a half-dozen regular bands and do sub gigs on top of that. One band is all original, another is female-fronted covers. Even with the remaining male-fronted cover bands, there's only partial overlap between sets. So, for the better part of a decade I've been using a tablet for almost every gig I play. It's an Android tablet with the Setlist Helper app. The app now contains nearly 700 songs split among 20 different band setlists. Some of those bands have no doubt broken up, but I've used a dozen of my band setlists within the past couple/few years.

Context: mainly bar gigs. I always ask a new BL whether charts are OK, and the answer has always been "sure. whatever works". I have occasionally used actual chord charts in iReal Pro, but 98% of the time I'm using my handwritten charts in Setlist Helper. I use SLH as a glorified text editor, cobbling out the song structure in my simplified version of the Nashville Number system*. Nearly all the time, the chart will fit on one screen.

IMPORTANT: I'm not reading every song! For any band I perform with regularly, I only read a couple/few songs per set, mainly recent additions. Also, unless the song is brand new to me or one I haven't played in a long time, I only need a quick glance or two at the chart to remind me of the structure. I'm hardly ever nose-down in my tablet for a song, and I've developed the ability to quickly adjust on the fly if a band plays a song differently than I've charted it.


* OK, here's an example of my number shorthand. It's not perfect... e.g. it doesn't say how many repetitions of the verse pattern. But I don't need perfection, I have ears. It's a super simple song, but the only time I played was at a sub gig. So, I jotted it down for that one gig, and it remains in my tablet for future reference along with many, many others.