Why do musicians have such a hard time with replacing someone?

I can see your point about being afraid to replace someone when they are doing a disservice to paying customers, but placing the emphasis on the Audience in that way is not exactly the opposite of cowardice. Most performers pander to and attempt to please their audience, so that's not special. The brave ones are the musicians that don't give a rat's about them. Bach said "Every note for God", not "Every note for Audience". Beethoven said to his patron, "You are but a prince. I am Beethoven [, mutha...]" Charles Ives didn't bother with conventional outlets after a while. He used money from his insurance business to produce his own shows and premiered works that increasingly impressed music critics and other composers while alienating audiences. When they walked out during his discordant pieces, he would jeer stuff like "What's the matter, can't take it, ya sissies?!"

I often think that we've gotten too far away from the priorities that makes music awesome, which is one of the many reasons why what we do is becoming a disposable commodity. I most admire the individuals like Frank Zappa that figured out how to be entertaining to an audience while simultaneously educating them and refraining from too much compromise.

 
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Hi PauFerro :)

Don' t get me wrong here :D I get what you want to say (I can sight read)

But if you need the book to play "rock standards",

you don 't even pass the auditions! :laugh:

(at least not for the bands I played in!)

greetings

Wise(b)ass

Not if you're the guy holding auditions. That guy is me.

Show up for an audition and you can't read a chart and you're out. Singers included. In fact, that's how I screen players in my little rock band caper now -- I ask if they can read charts, and if the answer is "no", there is no invitation to be part of the band, either as a sub or first call musician.

I need players who can play an hour or two of dinner music (jazz), and then rock the house with dance music with musicians they've never rehearsed with before, and may not have ever played the songs before.

That's my vision and it's been working for a year now. The client gets two bands for the price of 1.5 because there's only one set of haulage. It's hard to compete with that.

Who says there's no money above the first five frets? People who can't sightread jazz and rock charts. You know what they say "jazz players can play rock, rock players can't play jazz".

This is not to say that I don't respect rock players...there are some great players, but I find rehearsals and versatility is much more efficient when everyone can read charts. There was even a really good rock band in our town Amp'd that had music stands on stage but I couldn't even tell they were using them. They had plants in front of them and they were down really low. I was impressed. And they were good too.

Anyway, back to the original program. Another reason people will hang on to under performing members is a) uncomfortable having the hard conversation b) they have a relationship that goes beyond the band and don't want to disturb it.
 
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Somebody told me once "The bands are made for split up!" ... I was younger and that shocked me up. Now I'm older and I understand that.

We got a new drummer who isn't perfect. I told everybody in the band that I don't like his attitude. Don't get me wrong , he is not a bad person but as a musician lacks of some skills..our singer describes him as a big kid (and I agree with her)... I feel that he didn't study the songs or even practice them in a proper way.. he forgets parts or play them in a different way of the recordings (we have two albums released)...which means that I must change some of my parts to lock up with his playing.. I mean, it's ok to give your own flavour to a playing, but those songs were reccorded long time before he was in the band..

Why the band don't kick him out? Easy : FEAR. Fear of losing gigs , fear of being an undetermined amount of time looking for the right drummer, fear of not finding anyone... I noticed that when the band tell him to join us without auditioning anybody else...

I try to accept this guy . Nobody is perfect.. sometimes I'm a pain in the *ss too... but it's hard for me because I feel that he doesn't take music as serious as I do.
 
The last band I was in is having a hard time finding a new bass player, not because there aren't bassists in the area, but due to the fact that they want to play for free. Yes, for free, that being one of the reasons I left. I've seen their ads in my local craigslist page but apparently the bass guys just don't seem interested when they're told it's for fun only. Funny thing, I started noticing that recent ads on CL posted by keyboard players, singers, etc. state explicitly "I don't play for free" or "paid gigs only".
 
The last band I was in is having a hard time finding a new bass player, not because there aren't bassists in the area, but due to the fact that they want to play for free. Yes, for free, that being one of the reasons I left. I've seen their ads in my local craigslist page but apparently the bass guys just don't seem interested when they're told it's for fun only. Funny thing, I started noticing that recent ads on CL posted by keyboard players, singers, etc. state explicitly "I don't play for free" or "paid gigs only".

I like players who are a mixture of pay and non-pay motivations. That means we can do all kinds of things together that we enjoy, from good paying gigs to fun gigs where we just play for the sake of it. I have a full band's worth of these types of players, including a singer in rotation in my various groups. They all can do rock and jazz, and read charts for both genres. I gave them their own band name so they have an identity, and its the place we vet all our original music as well.
 
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Maybe the same part of our brains that make us good musicians is the part that makes us soft on firing band members. (The reason I say good musicians is that really lousy ones aren't usually the ones stuck in bands with this problem.) Perhaps the artistic, creative side is less likely to be realistic by cutting the cord quickly. The concepts of creativity and continuity are closely related. How many times do you practice a few bars of a song before you get it right? You all get together to work out the vocal harmonies and solos, etc. sometimes for hours on the same small piece. Firing people runs counter to that whole process. Even drummers. (Can't believe I said that.)
 
why hesitant? I would have to echo what some others have said - because it's hard finding the right new member.

I'm sure a lot of you guys saw the "hired gun" documentary which was excellent and eye-opening. I wish I had the exact quote, but Rob Zombie was talking about how hard it was to find the "right member" for his band. he said something like "it comes down to three things". First, you have to find an excellent musician - and they are everywhere. Second, you have to find someone who is comfortable and really good in a live environment - which whittles down the possibilities drastically. And third, you have to find someone who is good with "the hang" -- how they fit in with the other band members personally. How they are to be on the road with. how they are to rehearse with. The chemistry that must be present. and he said something like "that takes the number of possibilities down to like 10 people."

While some members MUST go because they are killing the band, finding the right guy to replace them in any particular city in your usual band? Difficult. You have to almost get lucky. it's like dating - everyone is on their best behavior at first, but about 2-3 months in, you find out who they really are. And it doesn't always work.

I have found that you have to network, network, network, and not be afraid to pull the trigger on someone. Don't waste your time on the untalented, the irresponsible or the uber-douchebag. cut them loose. Network with musicians. Keep them coming until you find the right ones.

Or, in some cases, I just leave when it's apparent the band isn't going to replacement the above mentioned untalented, irresponsible douchebag.
 
Thanks for that, it's perfect! That last line refers to audience conditioning, and audiences have been conditioned to be as dumb and short-attention-span as possible by the big money players in the industry. (i.e. American I-Dull, terrestrial radio)

I knew you'd like it, but the irony is that particular band wrote a lot of hits that you knew were going to be hits, because they were catchy, although I don't think most of them were all that "dull."

(Saturday in the Park, Beginnings, Does Anybody Really Know What Time it is?, 25 or 6 to 4, etc)

A Hit by Varese was intentionally obscure by design, I believe Robert Lamm's. I believe he also wrote Color my World. :)
 
I knew you'd like it, but the irony is that particular band wrote a lot of hits that you knew were going to be hits, because they were catchy, although I don't think most of them were all that "dull."

It's actually not ironic to me, in that they are a band that hit that 'sweet spot' where the music is fun to listen to but has good musicianship and is not intellectually dull. I'm not always in the mood for blips and blorps from John Zorn either ;) , so if music is good and catchy I'm down.

My point of comparison is... the video I'm linking below apparently has 268,000,000 more pleased listeners than the Chicago tune. The customer is not always right, and that's a LOT of people that need to hear more music if they enjoy that gawdawful sound that comes in at 3:33...

 
Some great input here :) As it turns out, I dismissed myself from the band since I already had a couple of replacements in training, and it's just easier that way for now.

The person in question is a very talented guitar player, but an all around PITA on a regular day. He has been increasingly hostile and aggressive towards me... I may provide details at some point, but I am still processing the situation since this a person I have known for many years and have done a lot for this person, and I just don't understand what triggered in his brain to act this way and yet doesn't see any issue with his behavior.

The other two see it, and are aware, but I guess willing to continue on for now. Maybe they think I am going to cave and come back at some point, and this will somehow get shuffled back under the rug. Such is life.
 
The devil you know is better than the devil you don't.

The trick is to get enough gigs so that you can have your choice of players. It's often hard to get really good players for a start-up project, so you go with the best you can find and then upgrade as needed.

Agree and a band is only as good as the weakest player.
For a lot of musicians, any kind of advice, suggestion, or comment on their playing is taken as a personal attack rather than constructive criticism to improve the band.
 
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Agree and a band is only as good as the weakest player.
For a lot of musicians, any kind of advice, suggestion, or comment on their playing is taken as a personal attack rather than constructive criticism to improve the band.

That's the difference between amateurs and pros, for my money. Amateur: "how can you SAY that about me?" Pro: "I'll work on that."
 
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I’ll guess you haven’t worked with many “pros”. ;)

Ego is something found at all levels, unfortunately, and there are those that “make it” as a pro with plenty of ego to spare.

I've worked with pros. They are easy to work with. They know how to run a rehearsal; they take criticism well; and they don't ham it up until its necessary.

Ego is found at their level, but not about something as stupid as that.
 
I've worked with pros. They are easy to work with. They know how to run a rehearsal; they take criticism well; and they don't ham it up until its necessary.

Ego is found at their level, but not about something as stupid as that.

Hmm. I’ve worked with pros as well. My experience is that, much like the rest of the human population, they can’t be categorized by a singular set of behaviors.