(Why) do Stingrays sound killer in the mix?

#42
New rule: if YOU can’t make a PBass sit well in the mix, with it’s signature low mid CHUNK that just WORKS, than YOU suck.

In my experience it’s the hi end basses of the modern era, with the full spectrum, hear-every-harmonic, piano clarity tone that are the hardest to EQ in a mix.

I suppose a 4-band EQ with multiple dip switches gives you the EQ options to get around that, and yet my Olinto P5 (alder/rw with flats AND a foam mute to mimic pre-CBS Pbass) continues to work on any stage, in any mix.

One time I had to open up my tone knob all the way … had to read the manual.


As to ‘the Ray’, I think it’s all part of the same trends: St Leo’s designs always seem to work in various ways/various genres, for the working bass player. As he intended them too. Other builders who mimic those specs/designs seem to have success.
 
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#44
Windreaper said:
The only the only P-style pickup I like for those genres is the Delano PMVC FE because it delivers more clarity than a typical P. I actually slightly favor the Delano reverse P on my P/MM Sandberg because it gets that hollow P grind without sounding muddy.
Click to expand...

This surprises me. I thought that Sandberg puts Delanos on their P/J basses (California VT), not on P/MM basses (California VM)...

What model is your Sandberg bass?
 
#45
saucypebble said:
Wow, this kinda blew up. Thanks for all the replys. Some more, some less usefull :laugh::thumbsup:

I think it makes sense to describe my setup a little. I play rounds fingerstyle into an HPF at 60Hz, LPF at 8k into medium compression, into EQ bumping at 200Hz and ~1k Hz while cutting below 100 Hz (our kick sits at 80-90) and a little cut at 3k Hz, into a cab sim DI or cab mic+DI. On top are 2 distorted guitars. So I adjust quite a lot to my bandmates. FOHs are usually happy. Still, for my taste it doesn't have enough presence with fingers on the PAs we usually play (venues with space for 100-300 people). With pick it gets a little better.
I like the carpet of deep drown from a P too. The difference in my ears is with P you have to crank the higher mids to cut while ray can cut with their growly lower mids. How do you P players manage vs. 2 heavy guitars?

Someone suggested stingrays cut through because of the frequencies around 800Hz. Is that true? I talked to sound guys about P basses and they seem to like 200 - 220Hz boost for oomph as well as 900-1000Hz for presence. So would I boost 800 instead of the 1k on a ray?

Finally: Yes I mentioned Santana as sound example. My bad. But keep in mind that the music I am trying to adjust to is more in realms of stoner or modern bluesrock. Two heavy guitars require even more effort to cut through and dont produce a mud fest.

And please keep posting more rock mixes where you like the bass sound!! Its best if we can hear, not only read, what we are talking about:)

Another one where I like the P "carpet" sound but the pick attack still cuts through:

He does it by bi-amping. Orange AD200MKII for lows, mid-boosted SVT +810 for mids and cut. Not a setup I want to carry but sounds huge for a trio.
Click to expand...


As mentioned earlier in this thread, there is no THE Mix. In the heavier genres, I like to think bass as the mortar around the guitar-sized bricks, need to figure out where you can fit in the context of your band. Of course it helps if the guitarists are also clued in to the concept and don't crank the lows on their amps, but I digress.

Typically for my stuff, the bass is present around 100-200Hz and 1-2kHz. Mids are scooped between 300-500Hz (a very busy area) and pick up from there. As for presence with fingerstyle, I find it helps to drop the action and learn to embrace fret clank. It's as much about the setup and playing style as it is about EQ.

Also, nothing wrong with a P with a pick in the right band and the right mix. Jess Pilson makes the tone work for Dokken.



Zbysek said:
This surprises me. I thought that Sandberg puts Delanos on their P/J basses (California VT), not on P/MM basses (California VM)...

What model is your Sandberg bass?
Click to expand...

It's a custom 2010 California PM5/VM5. I see a lot more Delano on the older Calis, so maybe it was a standard option back then, can't remember. They seem to mostly use their own pickups on the newer ones.
 
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#47
saucypebble said:
Wow, this kinda blew up. Thanks for all the replys. Some more, some less usefull :laugh::thumbsup:

I think it makes sense to describe my setup a little. I play rounds fingerstyle into an HPF at 60Hz, LPF at 8k into medium compression, into EQ bumping at 200Hz and ~1k Hz while cutting below 100 Hz (our kick sits at 80-90) and a little cut at 3k Hz, into a cab sim DI or cab mic+DI. On top are 2 distorted guitars. So I adjust quite a lot to my bandmates. FOHs are usually happy. Still, for my taste it doesn't have enough presence with fingers on the PAs we usually play (venues with space for 100-300 people). With pick it gets a little better.
I like the carpet of deep drown from a P too. The difference in my ears is with P you have to crank the higher mids to cut while ray can cut with their growly lower mids. How do you P players manage vs. 2 heavy guitars?

Someone suggested stingrays cut through because of the frequencies around 800Hz. Is that true? I talked to sound guys about P basses and they seem to like 200 - 220Hz boost for oomph as well as 900-1000Hz for presence. So would I boost 800 instead of the 1k on a ray?

Finally: Yes I mentioned Santana as sound example. My bad. But keep in mind that the music I am trying to adjust to is more in realms of stoner or modern bluesrock. Two heavy guitars require even more effort to cut through and dont produce a mud fest.

And please keep posting more rock mixes where you like the bass sound!! Its best if we can hear, not only read, what we are talking about:)

Another one where I like the P "carpet" sound but the pick attack still cuts through:

He does it by bi-amping. Orange AD200MKII for lows, mid-boosted SVT +810 for mids and cut. Not a setup I want to carry but sounds huge for a trio.
Click to expand...

1k and up, is treble dude.

500-800 is your presence in any mix.

And you should always cut 200-300...always...on just about everything.
 
#51
If you're bass sounds really pretty on it's own, it will get lost in a mix. One of the most illuminating things for any bassist to hear is the SOLOED bass track from one of their favorite albums, to find that the tone is a clanky distorted snotty mess with no bottom end, yet when the rest of the band is in, it sounds like Godzilla. The ears are a funny thing. Consider how much distortion/overdrive has to be put on a bass before it actually sounds distorted in a mix.
 
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#52
Jrussblues said:
It’s not rocket surgery. Play a p-bass if you want mediocrity or you want to not be heard in a modern mix.
Click to expand...

boo-gif-6.gif
 
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#54
saucypebble said:
I really dislike the frizzy highs of Musicmans but hey, in the mix they are so amazing to my ears.
Click to expand...

Yep , bedroom tone and "whole mix in a live context" is two different world me thinks.
It's hard and/or a long process to learn how to get a good Tone in a band context , like you said , different style equals different tones.
Also when your beside that tree , it's hard to see the forest

When you listen to Solo'ed tracks on YouTube , most often than not , sound like &%&#$

Yes , it all happens in the mix in the end but there's a limit to polish a turd
 
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#55
Not to derail here but I tried to like many stingrays I have owned, even a 78. I cant get along with them. Ive concluded that I need an neck pickup and a better G string..But when I hear Paul Denman I want one again:laugh:
 
#56
Direct answer to the thread's question is.........because Stingrays are mid heavy.

Back in the mid 60s when I was about 14 years old and saw/heard my very first rock n roll band at the Ohio State Fair............the thing that attracted me to the bass was the low frequency bottom. It was then that I knew that I wanted to play the bass guitar.

It's a matter of choice, I guess. Does being heard take precedence or being felt? The answer is similar to the question: What's the best flavor of ice cream.

(Found this illustration on Google Images.)



2ae47df77d197401de184fd39c87bf052b19c5d6.jpeg
 
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#57
fokof said:
Yep , bedroom tone and "whole mix in a live context" is two different world me thinks.
It's hard and/or a long process to learn how to get a good Tone in a band context , like you said , different style equals different tones.
Also when your beside that tree , it's hard to see the forest

When you listen to Solo'ed tracks on YouTube , most often than not , sound like &%&#$

Yes , it all happens in the mix in the end but there's a limit to polish a turd
Click to expand...
Agreed for sure. The one bass I have that is bedroom and live worthy is my Steiny L2..
 
#59
I've played lots of basses over the years and the MusicMan Stingray is the king IMO. I've always been a precision with rounds guy (still have one) but the Stingray is my "magnum" precision. These basses have BALLS. I prefer the 3 band EQ for the mid control. They're more versatile than people give them credit for. Other than some neck issues I experienced when the bass was new my '93 'ray is everything I want out of an instrument. You can dial in high end clarity without the sizzle and cut through the mix like a knife.
 
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