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Carl said ""Seriously? In what venues do you play these days?""
A couple years ago I relocated across the state with my work and have not played much. I don't think tab/music defines the venues you play in. The absolutely most talented musicians I have played with & heard don't have any music. Stevie Ray Vaughn, Eric Clapton & others admit they can't read or write music. So, music, tab or playing by ear (or feeling) is your preference. Like I said earlier, tab has its limitations. Music, if you can read it, is better.
A couple years ago I relocated across the state with my work and have not played much. I don't think tab/music defines the venues you play in. The absolutely most talented musicians I have played with & heard don't have any music. Stevie Ray Vaughn, Eric Clapton & others admit they can't read or write music. So, music, tab or playing by ear (or feeling) is your preference. Like I said earlier, tab has its limitations. Music, if you can read it, is better.
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To counter this, how do the tab guys sound when handed sheet music? It isn't an either or. My little world is primarily what is considered classical, and some of the guys I work with can tear it up in a band situation - I mean hard core! I've yet to see a guy who can't read music jam on Vivaldi convincingly.
Sheet music is available - if you will pay for it. Some of us do OK creating sheet music for artists who do not have/use sheet music. A good friend of mine went on the road with her step father, who is in the RRHOF, using the charts I wrote for her. She had a blast, reading the charts to get to know the parts and eventually just playing them as she saw fit. But she was purely reading the first night on the road - and impressed the hell out of everyone that she nailed the part just like on the recording.
If you will pay the price, it's all available in whatever format you need. But I'd lay odds a group of musicians playing from sheet music will sound more like a finished product the first time than a bunch of guys with tab on an unknown song - assuming it is from a genre they both are equally comfortable in.
Try tabbing out vocals.
If a player (not you) sucks, we don't blame tab or sheet music, it is a crappy "musician". I know dozens of people with degrees in music who are HORRIBLE and have no business doing music, and some with no training who are exquisitely talented. Most of us fall in the middle, and blaming/crediting ability to read is misguided. It's a tool. I know how to use them which gives ma an advantage over those who don't know how to use them. An artist uses what they have available, so why focus on what they lack?
Your statement contains the logical fallacy that tabs hinder a learner. Of course it has yet to be pointed out that Western notation is, in the span of human existence, a fairly new thing. Human's have been making music successfully for millennia without the benefit of being able to read or write anything.
The correct statement would be why use a regular screw driver when you can use a cordless drill. A cordless drill will do more, its more convenient, but isn't a necessity. People built things long before there were cordless drills.
Building something with a blueprint is easier, but humans have built things without being able to read numbers or letter.
You see a g, a, g, e, c, d, and a because you know the notes on the fretboard. A newb can learn songs with tabs and never learn what notes are what. Tell him this song is in c and he'll ask what fret that is on what string. Is that a good thing? No but it's not the worst thing. If he can maintain a groove and bring the funk when needed then great. He's doing his job as bass player.
It's better to know the fretboard and have a basic understanding of musical theory. It's also good to know how to change your own oil or do your own taxes. There are things in life that are good to know but you can live without.
I think they do in fact hinder a learner.
You can paint 1000 pictures by numbers, but you don't get any closer to becoming an artist that way.
All tab tells you is what frets the notes are located on. It tells you little about timing, it doesn't give you any clues about the other ways you could play it. It's harder to transpose, it's a crutch. You are better off not using it at all and learning how to use your ear or standard musical notation.
Tab isn't bad. Some of it is good, some not so much. I can read music ok (not so good if there are lots of flats) But I learned the basic parts to 100s of songs from tab (which actually does typically have the note lengths notated right above it)
The nice thing is my ear is good now, so I can quickly surmise when a tab is wrong, and usually correct it myself.
The nice thing is my ear is good now, so I can quickly surmise when a tab is wrong, and usually correct it myself.
Let me start off by declaring I don't know how to read music. I have tried and I've learned a tiny bit. I just can't seem to make the leap from the paper to the fret board. I love to play music, I have been able to write some well received songs. Let me say I wish I did know how to read music. I'm 60 and started playing the bass guitar at 13 and for a long while now I been strictly a guitar player.
Tab is a good tool because it is a vehicle to learning scales, guitar riffs/solos, songs etc., and it has its place. However it is not reading music and as one person commented, it isn't transferable. That is a big deal. In my opinion, both have their places. Lastly, a lot of famous, successful musicians cannot read music and it has not hampered them from doing well. Yet, I have to think knowing how to read music would make the road less bumpy.
Michael
Tab is a good tool because it is a vehicle to learning scales, guitar riffs/solos, songs etc., and it has its place. However it is not reading music and as one person commented, it isn't transferable. That is a big deal. In my opinion, both have their places. Lastly, a lot of famous, successful musicians cannot read music and it has not hampered them from doing well. Yet, I have to think knowing how to read music would make the road less bumpy.
Michael
Tab is a guide for learning by ear. You have to know the song to either learn by ear or use tabs. Not a valid argument.
The fact that huge portions of music everyone listens to without benefit of notation is a demonstration that it isn't a hobble.
As far as the painting, that isn't a fair comparison. Copying someone else's work in painting is considered a big no-no and there is not technical requirement like notation for painting. What you need is inspiration and creative ability. If a person writes a song without notation does that make him better than the person that needs notation just to ape him?
You can train your ear and memory to the level of hearing a song one time and then being able to recite it. I have yet to see anyone listen to a song once and then recite the song using only the tab as a guide. Professionals don't use it much.
And actually copying another artist's work in painting is not considered a bad thing. Art students study the techniques of the masters and attempt to reproduce their works all the time. The world of art restoration hires artists who are good at this to restore legendary famous paintings by painting over the original works themselves.
While we are on the topic of "Learn it by ear", here's what I want to know: How old and how simple is the stuff you are learning by ear? Are you learning ancient standards that people have heard a million times, with pretty straight forward lines on recordings where it is easy to hear bass?
When you can pump out some Mudvayne, Obscura, Nile, Black Crown Initiate, Karnivool, Ne Obliviscaris, or Decrepit Birth out without the benefit of tabs, we'll talk.
When you can pump out some Mudvayne, Obscura, Nile, Black Crown Initiate, Karnivool, Ne Obliviscaris, or Decrepit Birth out without the benefit of tabs, we'll talk.
Reading sheet music might be necessary for some musicians however it is not that way for all. Great Australian guitarist Tommy Emmanuel can't read music at all. I don't think it has hindered his playing and he can get up and jam cold with just about anyone. Obviously he knows quite a bit of theory, scales etc etc etc which is what allows him and others to play very well and improvise with the best of them.
I rarely use tablature but there are times that I just can't work out a bass line and will use tab to guide me. I know what key i'm supposed to be in and the rhythm of the song, I just sometimes need those few notes or a run that I just can't work out.
I rarely use tablature but there are times that I just can't work out a bass line and will use tab to guide me. I know what key i'm supposed to be in and the rhythm of the song, I just sometimes need those few notes or a run that I just can't work out.
Do you get many opportunities to jam on Vivaldi in the classical world? Or even to jam much for that matter? I suppose with some of Bach's notations where he'd do something like simply call for a Phrygian cadence (I seem to remember that in one of the Brandenburgs) might qualify. Or playing from a thoroughbass part might be seen as improvising in the same sense as a walking bassline. But classical music is fairly static for the most part. You could argue for things like "interpretation" where you might bow with a little more authority or "lean into the notes" a little more. But that's sort of a stretch in my book. And while I'm sure some of the people in the classical world may well be able to tear it up because they stretched their wings and got outside the classical box a bit, the ones that are firmly embedded in the classical world generally do not have that ability. AT least in my experience looking at it from both the inside (when I was heavily involved in choral music) and the outside.
And again, I have nothing against learning to read standard staff notation. I'm on record in other threads as saying I consider it an essential skill for a musician playing in any genre. And I practice what I preach. I'm equally comfortable reading staff notation, tabulature, Nashville notation, Gregorian, and some Kepatihan notation as well - although I'm a little rusty on that last one since my Gamelan days are far behind me.
The point I was trying to make earlier (and probably not very well) was that there's altogether too much mystique attached to many of the tools of music. They're all important (music theory, notation, solfege, bel canto, etc.) provided they don't become ends in themselves. Because elevating musical aides in that manner strikes me as mistaking the scaffolding for the cathedral - and missing it when it's finally removed.
But that's me. Too many years of Eastern philosophy under my belt I suppose. I'm somewhere in the middle of stage 9 in the Zen 10 Bulls parable.
The very few number of times I got to play an Eb clarinet I really enjoyed it. I remember enjoying playing a tenor sax too.
I find tab's inability to represent rhythmic patterns in a quickly readable form make it almost useless to me. The best I've seen is either akin to reading a midi sequence or adopts conventions from standard notation. I use normal notation quite a bit to transcribe songs that I'm interested in, almost never though for actual performance.
It may be silly, but you'll find it (hand, pencil) written over or under the notes in many beginning trumpet-player's music, (and baritone, tuba, etc.) just as you'l find the numbers 1-7 (hand, pencil) written in beginning trombone player's music. And in not-so-beginning trombone-player's music it's not odd to find a few, often accidentals, or "using alternate positions to make a run work better" generally scribbled in as a reminder after things went wrong a few times in practice. But only as a augmentation to the music, not as a replacement for it.