Acme B-112 vs Barefaced Big Baby

I think the reason both the Acme and Barefaced cabs are power hungry is that both are tuned low. Since the Acme is less efficient I figured that it's probably because of being tuned lower. I don't care about efficiency but do care about going as deep as possible with as little rolloff as possible.

Barefaced have not been called power hungry by anyone I know of, but it's a common description I've seen for Acme. My experience with the BB2 says it isn't power hungry. It also isn't tuned low, though it has plenty of low end extension for most players.
IME YMMV ETC
 
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Exactly, which is why hitting 30hz isnt as important as it seems. Even drop A only really needs 50hz or so to highlight the harmonic.

Then I would plan on three or four of the ACME's. They are power hungry, but have limits just like any other cab in terms of power handling. When Andy rates the speakers at 350 watts, and recommends 300-400 watts, he means it. So depending on volume needs you might need more than two cabs to meet your goals. Hitting them too hard will "light them up".

As an example it would take two ACME 12's to surpass the output of one 3012LF loaded cab, regardless of the amp.

Good to know. I don't need to get super loud but it's good to know that about the power.
 
This may be true but it's a lesson I must learn for myself. Typically I have some (crappy) FOH support with no subs. So, my needs are more around quality and low end rather than sheer volume and don't mind carrying a 1000 watt amp if that's what it takes to light up an inefficient cab.

a note to mods----I'm responding directly to the question

Actually, my cabs do go as low as the Acme cabs. Almost identical -3db points. My MAS109 weighs around 34# and (using Barefaced nomenclature) moves around 600cc's of air. The MAS46 weighs around 42# and also moves around 600cc's. My MAS112 weighs around 44# and moves 950cc's of air. The "super" 12's like the Audiokinesis, Barefaced, and others move around 500cc's. ( Barefaced claims 550 cc's)

If I were in your shoes (hope they're size 13W), I'd go with the MAS109 or MAS46. If you don't have PA support & play with a LOUD band, then look at the MAS112.
Mike is a great guy!
 
Good to know. I don't need to get super loud but it's good to know that about the power.

Would a single or pair of standtard 12's meet your volume needs?

I would also tag in @BassmanPaul who uses and loves his ACME gear. I know he has said he would never gig with less than two of his Low B-2's, which are actually more sensitive than the B-112's.
 
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a note to mods----I'm responding directly to the question

Actually, my cabs do go as low as the Acme cabs. Almost identical -3db points. My MAS109 weighs around 34# and (using Barefaced nomenclature) moves around 600cc's of air. The MAS46 weighs around 42# and also moves around 600cc's. My MAS112 weighs around 44# and moves 950cc's of air. The "super" 12's like the Audiokinesis, Barefaced, and others move around 500cc's. ( Barefaced claims 550 cc's)

Thanks...I'll take another look.
 
Would a single or pair of standtard 12's meet your volume needs?

I would also tag in @BassmanPaul who uses and loves his ACME gear. I know he has said he would never gig with less than two of his Low B-2's, which are actually more sensitive than the B-112's.

I think one would do it but am not sure. My usual environment is a church with no drummer or only cajon. Guitars are DI'd acoustics - no solid body electrics.
 
@wcriley has experience with the 3012LF and the ACME cabs.
I'm not sure my experience is relevant to this discussion.
First off, I compared an Acme B-2 (not a B-112) with a fEARful 12/6 (not a Barefaced).
Secondly, it was 6 1/2 years ago (and I can barely remember what happened yesterday).

Edit to add:
I agree with Mike Arnapol. While it's true that the ear/brain can fill in the "missing fundamental", that only applies to the perceived pitch of the note. If the fundamental frequency is "missing", the note will not sound as "full". If you listen to music on a cell phone, for example, you can identify the pitches...but it sounds thin and tinny.
 
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I'm not sure my experience is relevant to this discussion.
First off, I compared an Acme B-2 (not a B-112) with a fEARful 12/6 (not a Barefaced).
Secondly, it was 6 1/2 years ago (and I can barely remember what happened yesterday).

Edit to add:
I agree with Mike Arnapol. While it's true that the ear/brain can fill in the "missing fundamental", that only applies to the perceived pitch of the note. If the fundamental frequency is "missing", the note will not sound as "full". If you listen to music on a cell phone, for example, you can identify the pitches...but it sounds thin and tinny.

I have started to notice what you are referring to ever since I started studying extended range cabs.
 
Steve for the love of mike will you please make a decision? The suspenders are killing me!! :D

:D

I may be overkilling the research a little but this is my first venture into boutique-ish cabs. When I bought my first nice rig I spent a long time in GC over multiple visits comparing GK and Markbass.
 
Just an FYI. There is some confusion about cab efficiency and cab tuning. Cab tuning refers to the frequency the cab's helmholtz resonance is tuned to. Tuning a cab lower will alter the level of the low bass, but will have minimal impact on efficiency. Simply tuning a given cab lower will not necessarily result in audibly deeper bass (frequently the opposite) or lower efficiency. Yes, the lower bass may be depressed a few db relative to the higher tuning, but from the mid-upper bass upward, the efficiency is unchanged. This is all about Hoffman's Iron Law, which is more or less about compromises between box size, low frequency extension and efficiency for sealed or vented designs. Basically, you can have two out of three. For example, you can have a small box with deep bass, but it will have relatively low efficiency - like the Acme. So, a cab the same size as the Acme , but with higher efficiency, cannot have equally deep bass. in fact, it must have less low end extension.
 
Tons of interesting technical articles on the BF website. Obviously, they support the direction Alex has gone with his cabs. Still good food for thought.
Here's one I like, despite not being 100% comfortable that I understand it all.
Barefaced Bass - Sensitivity - marketing and over-simplified engineering

I plan to spend some time reading on the BF website as well as reread the reviews that both BF and Acme reference on their pages.

If I end up with Acme, I'm definitely going to have some stickers made of Wile E. Coyote with a TNT plunger.
 
Anybody ever considered the meaning of spikes/pulses which is very natural with every audio/MI program material?
There is no way to consider these artefacts with "classic" Fourier analyses but it's still there and strains amplifiers and cabs.
Most of us try to think in Fundamental and Overtones but spikes/pulses are totally different amimals.
 
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Anybody ever considered the meaning of spikes/pulses which is very natural with every audio/MI program material?

That's what I'm getting at in some of those articles about the R&D behind our Gen 3 models. To treat bass guitar signals as steady state ones when analysing them is complete lunacy - there is nothing steady state about bass guitar or double bass, otherwise we wouldn't be part of the RHYTHM section.
 
Still pondering, but I would love to have stickers like this made to go on an Acme cab or cabs....

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Barefaced have not been called power hungry by anyone I know of, but it's a common description I've seen for Acme. My experience with the BB2 says it isn't power hungry. It also isn't tuned low, though it has plenty of low end extension for most players.
IME YMMV ETC

Seems like somewhere along the line Alex had a philosophical change of heart where in the beginning Barefaced was maybe more similar to Acme in terms of tuning very low but maybe that has shifted of late based on further research and his understanding of how human hearing works, etc, etc. I understand those arguments from a layman's perspective, but wonder now if Barefaced has any more low end reach than other high end cabs. That would not make them better or worse, just different. Maybe I should go back to looking at Bergs too.

Glad I need to sell some stuff first...helps keep the "buy now" finger under control while continuing to study the options. :-)
 
Maybe it will be a little off topic, but after hearing all the scientific stuff, I tried a Barefaced Big Baby II, and it sounded like a Mid/High P.A. cab. Very shy lows.
A Markbass Traveler 2x10, which is really not the fullest sounding cab, sounded like a bass stack next to it. So it was a very crappy experience, after reading all the great marketing propaganda stuff on tha Barefaced webpage. Embarrasing to read raving reviews as well about this cab...
 
Maybe it will be a little off topic, but after hearing all the scientific stuff, I tried a Barefaced Big Baby II, and it sounded like a Mid/High P.A. cab. Very shy lows.
A Markbass Traveler 2x10, which is really not the fullest sounding cab, sounded like a bass stack next to it. So it was a very crappy experience, after reading all the great marketing propaganda stuff on tha Barefaced webpage. Embarrasing to read raving reviews as well about this cab...

Interesting. Wasn't there, so I can't dispute that, nor speculate why it was like that, but it certainly hasn't been my experience nor the general consensus.
 
Maybe it will be a little off topic, but after hearing all the scientific stuff, I tried a Barefaced Big Baby II, and it sounded like a Mid/High P.A. cab. Very shy lows.
A Markbass Traveler 2x10, which is really not the fullest sounding cab, sounded like a bass stack next to it. So it was a very crappy experience, after reading all the great marketing propaganda stuff on tha Barefaced webpage. Embarrasing to read raving reviews as well about this cab...
So, did you check the other elements in the signal chain to make sure all was well?