This is very surprising. What amp were you using and did you try to change the EQ to get a similar response? My guess would be that the MB maybe has a hump in the response that made you think it sounds like it has more bass. I would expect that will a little EQ (and enough power) you could get much more bass from the BF than the MB. I've never tried that MB 2x10 though so this is just purely "spec"ulation on my part.
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Acme B-112 vs Barefaced Big Baby
- Thread starter Doner Designs
- Start date
This is very surprising. What amp were you using and did you try to change the EQ to get a similar response? My guess would be that the MB maybe has a hump in the response that made you think it sounds like it has more bass. I would expect that will a little EQ (and enough power) you could get much more bass from the BF than the MB. I've never tried that MB 2x10 though so this is just purely "spec"ulation on my part.
My guess would be a baked in upper-bass / low-mid hump to make that cab sound bigger, but only because I've heard some builders do that. I don't know real spec's, so this (my) post is practically worthless.
Edit: Also looked at the Traveler 102P, and noticed the low end of the frequency response is stated at 45Hz vs. 30Hz on the BB2. Some of that could contribute to the 102p feeling bigger, as it isn't unlike a HPF which often tightens the low end. The internal volume and port design, along with the rear vs. front placement could be a factor, particularly depending on how close to a wall the 102P rear port was situated. Also, if the crossover on the BB2 was turned way up, then it might have presented as biased toward those frequencies.
...again, speculation. For all I know the BB2 may not have been the right tool for this job. Nobody wins every fight.
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The 2 cabs were in a middle of a room, on the floor, no tricks with wall reflections. I went there to have my face kicked off by the sound, and have a new cab G.A.S. and sell my Markbass cab immediately to get a Barefaced! 
We tried it with 2 heads, an Aguilar Tonehammer 350, and a Prolude KO 750, and different basses. The result was always the same (shame). We have played with the Barefaced's crossover, but it didn't made the cab sound full any way, just less bright. Too much bass has an effect, that it covers the higher frequency range, but highs can't cover lower frequencies. If there is no low, it won't appear if I decrease the highs. For me the specifications were nowhere according to what was expereinced. (30 Hz????)
My only opinion is, that a bass guitar cab should sound balanced with flat eq, taste is a different case. And my Markbass cab that sounded full next to Barefaced, sounds a little upper mid honky with flat eq when there is no comparison...
I would appreciate if you could make some comparisons as well! Maybe my expereince is a really unique thing, the only one in the Universe
We tried it with 2 heads, an Aguilar Tonehammer 350, and a Prolude KO 750, and different basses. The result was always the same (shame). We have played with the Barefaced's crossover, but it didn't made the cab sound full any way, just less bright. Too much bass has an effect, that it covers the higher frequency range, but highs can't cover lower frequencies. If there is no low, it won't appear if I decrease the highs. For me the specifications were nowhere according to what was expereinced. (30 Hz????)
My only opinion is, that a bass guitar cab should sound balanced with flat eq, taste is a different case. And my Markbass cab that sounded full next to Barefaced, sounds a little upper mid honky with flat eq when there is no comparison...
I would appreciate if you could make some comparisons as well! Maybe my expereince is a really unique thing, the only one in the Universe
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alexclaber
Commercial User
- Jun 19, 2001
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The BB2 is a super accurate cab - whatever sound you put in is the sound you'll get out, just like with a big studio monitor or hi-fi speaker or great quality PA system with subs. If you prefer your sound to be coloured by the speaker (as with that Markbass cab) to get the tone you like then you'd be better off with one of our 10CR cabs which add fatness and warmth.
Well, can it be, that the Barefaced I've checked was defected somehow? I should check it again.
alexclaber
Commercial User
- Jun 19, 2001
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- Director - Barefaced Ltd
Well, can it be, that the Barefaced I've checked was defected somehow? I should check it again.
It might be - pretty unlikely though. I remember having a similar experience almost 20 years ago when I replaced my Peavey 112MB cab with two Acme Low-B2s.
It sounds like something in the signal chain was not right. Too many variables to start guessing.Well, can it be, that the Barefaced I've checked was defected somehow? I should check it again.
Your experience sounds like the opposite of everyone else's that had posted feedback here (& other forums).
Well, can it be, that the Barefaced I've checked was defected somehow? I should check it again.
Might be worth it. Perhaps the baked in Markbass cab tone works better with some EQ settings. Certainly try it again, if you can. No harm can come from it. Play around with the EQ; perhaps adjusting the knob settings will provide better results. If nothing else, you might find the root of the issue, as opposed to just being turned off by a poor first-blush experience. Useful stuff for communicating on the boards when someone is asking about bits of gear.
Regardless, your experience is yours. If a bit of gear doesn't work for you, then it doesn't. I'm not a fan of many wildly popular items, like Ampeg amps and the Darkglass distortion. There is no universal tool for everyone, so use what works for you. I found that I had to sell my Monique once I started using Barefaced cabs, because I couldn't get what I wanted out of the complete rig, despite having some very nice components; the synergy just wasn't there for my technique with my basses, and my goals.
I first became aware of BF cabs when my friend's band were in town for a week. They practiced in our space. My friend had an Eden WT800 into two BB2s. I played this rig for hours. Some of the best bass sounds I've ever heard. Not bass shy at all, but you have to dial it in. 30Hz is about right. You can bang on the B string all day. The B fundamental is there. And loud. Flat the bass isn't overwhelming it's just present and clear.The 2 cabs were in a middle of a room, on the floor, no tricks with wall reflections. I went there to have my face kicked off by the sound, and have a new cab G.A.S. and sell my Markbass cab immediately to get a Barefaced!
We tried it with 2 heads, an Aguilar Tonehammer 350, and a Prolude KO 750, and different basses. The result was always the same (shame). We have played with the Barefaced's crossover, but it didn't made the cab sound full any way, just less bright. Too much bass has an effect, that it covers the higher frequency range, but highs can't cover lower frequencies. If there is no low, it won't appear if I decrease the highs. For me the specifications were nowhere according to what was expereinced. (30 Hz????)
My only opinion is, that a bass guitar cab should sound balanced with flat eq, taste is a different case. And my Markbass cab that sounded full next to Barefaced, sounds a little upper mid honky with flat eq when there is no comparison...
I would appreciate if you could make some comparisons as well! Maybe my expereince is a really unique thing, the only one in the Universe
Now that Markbass cab, if it's similar to the 210 in the 102 combo, that cab is voiced for upper bass/low mids. I've used those as backlines. You can get that with the BB2 but you need to dial it in. Aguilar DB cabs are voiced that way. Just something to consider.
Wow, extremely harsh.
"I didn't care for it" or "not enough bass" or "I didn't like the tone at all" or whatever would be an objective expression of not liking it, rather than that it was "embarrassing" for the manufacturer or many many satisfied users to say good things about their cab. You seem a bit extreme in this regard. Perhaps you've let your emotions run away with you due to your expectations of what this cab would sound like not being met?
To say the BB2 is "bass shy" is evidence, IMO, that perhaps there was something gone awry in your test-- that's the last thing I'd say about these cabs. I'd find it far more believable if you said it had too much bass. Also, I'd add that just running a cab at "flat" EQ is not the measure of a cab, IMO-- the measure would be, IMO, how you can tweak the sound to your taste, and whether or not you can get the rig where you want it sound-wise. No amp is set at "flat" when I play. Additionally, how it sits in a mix is pretty important; sounds like you were unable to test that.
Perhaps you will not like it in the end anyway, since it does give back what you put in. And that's fine. I have read remarks from a few folks here who just didn't find them to their liking. No gear is for everyone, and perhaps you want/need/prefer a fuzzier, less distinct, or more colored tone. In which case, dare I say it?-- maybe the Barefaced 10's would be more to your liking since they have kind of pleasing colored warmth about them that is flattering for bass. Or, just go with the Markbass gear, which I never cared for (though I have never called anyone's praise of Markbass an "embarrassment" based on my opinion).
There are high-end products that I just don't care for the sound of; no worries if it's not for you. Your somewhat insulting demeanor is a bit off-putting though.
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Thank you for the replies!
I didn't mean to harm anyone, and perhaps I was not precise enough, as my mother tounge is not english, so in this case sorry from everyone.
The reason I wrote this, is simple, I had the previously mentioned experience, and I felt strange as I haven't heard what I expected to hear. There can be some mistake what we have done during the testing, but it has a little possibility. The owner of the cab was not surprised, how the cab sounds.
Can be that my ears are not used to the super flat sound, but... I've heard my basses a few times already through fancy studio monitors, as well... Also I always want to hear my bass clear, and flat, I really hate boomy, or mid scooped cabs, but can be that my perception is not objective. (Well I think most of is like this as well. )
Next week I try to meet with a friend, who had the Big Baby, and meanwhile he got a One 10, and we'll do some testing again. I'll write about my experience, and I'll be careful how I write it!
I didn't mean to harm anyone, and perhaps I was not precise enough, as my mother tounge is not english, so in this case sorry from everyone.
The reason I wrote this, is simple, I had the previously mentioned experience, and I felt strange as I haven't heard what I expected to hear. There can be some mistake what we have done during the testing, but it has a little possibility. The owner of the cab was not surprised, how the cab sounds.
Can be that my ears are not used to the super flat sound, but... I've heard my basses a few times already through fancy studio monitors, as well... Also I always want to hear my bass clear, and flat, I really hate boomy, or mid scooped cabs, but can be that my perception is not objective. (Well I think most of is like this as well.
)Next week I try to meet with a friend, who had the Big Baby, and meanwhile he got a One 10, and we'll do some testing again. I'll write about my experience, and I'll be careful how I write it!
Thank you for the replies!
I didn't mean to harm anyone, and perhaps I was not precise enough, as my mother tounge is not english, so in this case sorry from everyone.
The reason I wrote this, is simple, I had the previously mentioned experience, and I felt strange as I haven't heard what I expected to hear. There can be some mistake what we have done during the testing, but it has a little possibility. The owner of the cab was not surprised, how the cab sounds.
Can be that my ears are not used to the super flat sound, but... I've heard my basses a few times already through fancy studio monitors, as well... Also I always want to hear my bass clear, and flat, I really hate boomy, or mid scooped cabs, but can be that my perception is not objective. (Well I think most of is like this as well.
Next week I try to meet with a friend, who had the Big Baby, and meanwhile he got a One 10, and we'll do some testing again. I'll write about my experience, and I'll be careful how I write it!
Well take the compliment that your English is strong enough that nobody assumed it wasn't your native language
I think the One10 voicing will be more to your liking. True, deep bass like what the OP is trying to get can be tricky to produce, amplify, and mix. What many perceive as bass is closer to low-mid. I think that's why this thread exists.
An interesting perspective. Just about every review/comment on the Big Baby that I have read (and I have read many as I am considering one) mentions its prodigious but controlled bass, some saying that it is like having a P.A. subwoofer on stage with you. Like you, I have never heard one myself so am dependent on others. Perhaps there may have been some issue elsewhere, but I have always believed that the best way to really assess a speaker is in a band situation and hearing it in on stage in a live mix. Unfortunately that is seldom practical unless you buy it first - which is where Alex's trial offer comes into its own.
As a general question I ask: If bass response on a given cab is "prodigious but controlled", but in fair comparison to another cabinet is perceived as "lacking", would this indicate that the other cabinet is inherently more sensitive to LF or is the former cabinet less-sensitive there?
In the above cases, if one can cut/boost the EQ and effectively eliminate the individual issue, is there a problem or deficiency with the cabinet?
Getting the tone I am after is important, but I ask, is a cabinet being inherently colored vs. being super acurate the proper yardstick for comparison?
In the above cases, if one can cut/boost the EQ and effectively eliminate the individual issue, is there a problem or deficiency with the cabinet?
Getting the tone I am after is important, but I ask, is a cabinet being inherently colored vs. being super acurate the proper yardstick for comparison?
Keeping it topical, I get the impression (though I've never played one) that the Acme is low-end capable, but not low-end hyped, or bumped in the low mids to give an impression of low end. I've yet to read that it is baked-in in any significant way, hence the power-hungry reputation (to produce real sub-100Hz bass).
- Jun 2, 2012
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Just noticed your Trace Elliot avatar. Have you by chance tried the Ashdown Retroglide 800 which has 12 band EQ instead of tone controls? I thought it was goofy at first, but now I think it makes a lot of sense and it has great low end EQ points starting at 30hz.
No I haven't, but as the owner of (I believe) 11 GP12 series amps/preamps, I guess I'd have to say I am a fan of the 12-band graphic EQ
And yes, being able to take out the 30Hz makes a big difference.
- Jun 2, 2012
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I currently have two Markbass rigs, one of which I plan to keep and one which will be replaced by a new amp and cab if I ever finish researching.
I think it's true that MB has a baked in upper bass or low mid bump. When I use EQ, I typically cut low mids and boost a little at 40hz. I learned that trick from playing with an Ampeg SCR DI - the Ultra Low switch is actually a 2db boost at 40hz and a 10 or 15 db cut at 500hz).
Thanks to all for the posts. Very educational. Starting out I thought the Big Baby was the one for me to look at, but now I'm thinking the 210 or a pair of the 110's may be more up my alley.
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- Jun 2, 2012
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No I haven't, but as the owner of (I believe) 11 GP12 series amps/preamps, I guess I'd have to say I am a fan of the 12-band graphic EQ
And yes, being able to take out the 30Hz makes a big difference.
I always like seeing posts and pics where others have a dozen basses or amps....makes me feel a bit less gluttonous.
I was more thinking about putting the 30 and 40hz in (using the low end EQ to offset cab rolloff), but wiser fellows seem to be telling me that that is the wrong goal.