Any true humbucking J pickups around?

#41
TuneSalad666 said:
Since you seem to fail to understand what I mean unless I use 100% correct technical terms (even if I did specify in the first post of this thread that dual split coil hum canceling pickups doesn't qualify as what I call a true humbucker pickup):

By true humbuckers I actually mean traditional humbuckers, as in pickups that uses two coils run in serial connection under two parallel rows of polepieces or rails.
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wow...
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#42
TuneSalad666 said:
Seems to me that you got at lot of misunderstandings, misconceptions and wrong assumptions going for you there.

As I already stated, yes, I know what I want, how else could I ask where to find it and expect to get a decent answer?

The answers I pointed out I couldn't use were the ones which suggested pickups that I specifically stated that I was not interested in, and mind I did not do this to be disrespectful, simply pointing out that it was not what I was looking for and the reason why.

Yes, I do not have a lot of personal experience with different pickups, exactly as I stated, doesn't mean that I haven't read up on different pickup types and what they do though and doesn't mean I haven't enough experience with playing bass and music as such to know what I am looking for.

In short:
Knowing what you are looking for doesn't automatically give you the answer on where to find it, just increase the possibility of someone possibly being able to help you that does know.

Also hard to get your point through when your thread is constantly bombarded with off topic content that calls for a reply, so I understand your confusion about what I want, even if I think I stated it pretty clearly in my first post.

Actually in the midst of all the mess this thread developed into I did get a couple of useful replies which I also thanked for and commented on.

Like this, that actually was exactly the kind of answer I was looking for:
Any true humbucking J pickups around?

Or this, which was not really the answer I was looking for, but still a useful suggestion of possibly achieving what I wanted (the part of the reply that suggests using a preamp):
Any true humbucking J pickups around?
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Happy for you that the site is useful but your thread, which subject was interesting, in reality hasn’t got a lot intrinsic meaning as an humbucking pickup is a pickup wired to avoid the single coil hum ... that’s all ... you have to specify which tone you aim for to help people helping you ... humbuckers generally have a more limited response in the high register but this is also a typical feature of stacked coils or dual inline pickups contained in a single coil casing ... so from this point of view you may install whatever humbucking pickup (according to the definition of it, which is different from your vague “I’d like something...”) you can find contained within a single coil shell ... other than that it’s difficult to say something ... if you want to know which humbucking pickups (always according to the definition of the Term) for a jazz bass do actually produce a nice almost single-coil tone I can recommend Nordstrand NJ4SV and Fender 4th Gen. pickups ... if you want a dual coil humbucker normally it has the size of a MM or soapbar pickup although JBE, as stated, produces a dual blade pickup fitting the J pickup cavity ... reasons behind this choice or preference of yours, however, remain undisclosed
 
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#43
Wasnex said:
IMHO, these tonal goals do not seem to suggest "humbucker." Single coil pickups are typically characterized as open and thin with less punch and low end; while humbuckers are characterized as fat or full, but with less extension in the high frequencies. In my experience single coils tend to produce a more piano like sound.
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In all seriousness, I would agree with that...I’ve played many soap bar pickups previously before realizing I just didn’t get the clarity I was hoping for. Full and meaty, or beefy if you will, but just wasn’t the “piano type” clarity as you say.
 
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#44
pbassnut said:
What's your attraction to "true humbucking"? As long as they're quiet and sound good, what's the difference? I have a coupla basses loaded with DiMarzio Area J pickups and think they work great. They have a fairly authentic old school single coil like Jazz sound, are quiet, have excellent string to string balance (with their raised A and D pole pieces) and are quite reasonably priced. I don't have the slightest idea of what's going on underneath the pickup covers and don't really care ... they've got it where it counts as far as my needs ... check'm out.
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another fan of the Area J pickups here

Now, whether they are two coils stacked or side by side (what the OP wants) vs split coils (what the OP eloquently dismisses), I don't really know. I didn't find that information, and a picture of their bottom doesn't fully clarify the issue. They look like they could be what the OP wants... but can't be certain. I'm only certain they sound great.

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#45
Wasnex said:
Here's a J pickup with split blades that might qualify. The designer says "designed to maintain authentic J-Bass™ tone and character but with extended frequency response and articulation"
J-Style Bass Pickups for J-Bass | JBE Pickups

My Google search terms: '"j pickup" humbucker' After the search, I switched from "All" to "Images" to view photos that meet your visual requirements.

All the J pickups I saw with split pole pieces were double wide. The size limits of a J pickup would seem to be somewhat of a limiting factor. Perhaps it would be wise to focus on sound qualities rather than pickup architecture.





IMHO, these tonal goals do not seem to suggest "humbucker." Single coil pickups are typically characterized as open and thin with less punch and low end; while humbuckers are characterized as fat or full, but with less extension in the high frequencies. In my experience single coils tend to produce a more piano like sound. Some of the difference in the characteristic frequency response is due to impedance. Higher impedance pickups tend to produce more lows and roll of more of the high end. I am sure designers can take other steps to minimize or enhance this tendency. Are there no stacked coil J pickups that use series windings?

Regarding the parallel rows of pole pieces in some humbuckers...the physical separation of the pole pieces would result in each pole piece sensing slightly different harmonics. Think in terms of how pickup placement effects tone. I would think that the split pole piece architecture would produce some degree of comb filtering or alteration to the smoothness of the frequency response. Perhaps this is why Leo Fender chose to use a split coil humbucker in the P bass instead of the humbucker architecture you describe.

Perhaps you need active pickups with a preamp that has a baked in response that would better meet your tonal goals. Or perhaps you need a pickup system that would allow a dummy coil to be inserted in series with the single coil jazz pickup for noise cancellation and to give you more of a humbucker impedance and tone profile.
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Thanks for your thoughts, appreciated.

Though the architecture, or at least the form as in housing part of the pickup is kind of crucial for what I have in mind, as I don't really want to have to drill cavities for other pickup types in the P/J bass I have in mind for this.

Of course I will have to accept it if the only option for achieving what I want is doing so or buying another bass, but if it is possible I'd prefer not to.

Also following your description of single coil and humbucker pickups neither seem to describe a piano like tone very well.

One of my goals was a fuller, richer tone though, which seems to fit the humbucker description.

From the little personal experience I have with other bass pickup types than the P/J format one came pretty close to what I want to achieve though, the Seymour Duncan Rickenbacker neck pickup, which is a ceramic blade humbucker.

Hard to say of course how much of the tone did actually come from the pickup and how much of it could be credited to the specific bass I used it in and the placement of the pickup.

Also it didn't seem to produce quite as full and punchy a tone as I have in mind, though I'd definitely describe it as having some very clear and articulate piano like qualities about it.

Tempted to try out the Reverend J-Rail bridge and and P-Blade pickups (https://www.reverendguitars.com/pickups), but kind of an expensive experiment when I have little idea if it will actually get me much closer to what I want to achieve.

As already suggested and as you also speculate simply throwing in the right preamp might be able to do the trick as well.
 
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#47
The reverend pickups you can hear on Reverend basses like the Mercalli (great bass by the way) are super solid and bass-clear pickups ... but nothing piano-like at all however ... they are soft, bassy and clear in the low register although are likely not very loud and these are their best features (personally I like them a lot) ...
My best suggestion for you would be to route the body of your bass to install a double single coil pickup a la Haeussel or Seymour Duncan NYC with option for switchable coils and parallel/series wiring ... this will give you a tone Arsenal and lot of power when required ... if the bass hasn’t got a high resale value this may be a winning option (check the sound of the Marusczyk PJ with this configuration in passive mode on a Public Peace) ...
Peace and Love ;)
 
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#49
TuneSalad666 said:
Thanks for your thoughts, appreciated.

Though the architecture, or at least the form as in housing part is kind of crucial for what I have in mind, as I don't really want to have to drill cavities for other pickup types in the P/J bass I have in mind for this.

Also following your description of single coil and humbucker pickups non of them seems to fit a piano like tone, as neither seem to describe a piano like tone very well.

One of my goals was a fuller, richer tone though, which seems to fit the humbucker description.
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There are lots of different tonal options available in the J-style shell. Split coils, stacked coils, and even at least one split rail design.

IMHO, piano is very articulate, open, harmonically rich, and percussive (single coil). It is not thick and bassy (humbucker). IMHO Chris Squire achieved what I consider piano-like bass tone with a Rickenbacker (single coil)

 
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#50
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#51
#52
Gianni "Orlandez" Orlati said:
Happy for you that the site is useful but your thread, which subject was interesting, in reality hasn’t got a lot intrinsic meaning as an humbucking pickup is a pickup wired to avoid the single coil hum ... that’s all ... you have to specify which tone you aim for to help people helping you
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I might not use the 100% correct technical term for the type of pickup I am interested in, but I am pretty certain I made it perfectly clear in my first post exactly what I mean by it.

If people refuse to give me a proper answer because I don't know the correct technical term for something even if I still manage to make it perfectly clear what I mean by it, it is not me who have a problem, frankly.

Though I am curious as how you would meaningfully and precisely describe what I am looking for in short to fit a headline?

------

Anyway, judging from the proper answers I actually did get it seems like what I wanted to achieve is not possible to achieve the way I imagined it.

Still I dare say the actual main question of what traditional humbucker pickups in a J pickup format that is out there is still interesting and relevant.

Thanks to everyone who actually did a genuine attempt to answer my questions.
 
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#53
Gianni "Orlandez" Orlati said:
Yes I also wanted to mention them but they do not seem to fit the OP’s description ...
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IMHO, it would be best to focus on "noiseless" designs that provide the desired feel and sound rather than a specific humbucking architecture. Hopefully we are at the point where the OP agrees. If not, he has two split rail models to choose from that seem to meet his physical design parameters.

I am not certain of the architecture of Bart's (dual inline coil) humbucker, but I know they don't sound like any single coils I have used. Few humbuckers are as rich and full as the Barts. I see this as a design choice in which rich and full is traded for high frequency extension. IMHO my Barts are very unpiano-like, and they get louder as you play lower on the instrument. The open B string is almost too huge...or maybe it is too huge. I think the bass sounds awesome in someone else's hands, but I rarely play it as I typically prefer a more open and even sound. IMHO, best uses for this bass: backing a Southern Baptist gospel choir.
 
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#54
Wasnex said:
IMHO, it would be best to focus on "noiseless" designs that provide the desired feel and sound rather than a specific humbucking architecture. Hopefully we are at the point where the OP agrees. If not, he has two split rail models to choose from that seem to meet his physical design parameters.

I am not certain of the architecture of Bart's (dual inline coil) humbucker, but I know they don't sound like any single coils I have used. Few humbuckers are as rich and full as the Barts. I see this as a design choice in which rich and full is traded for high frequency extension. IMHO my Barts are very unpiano-like, and they get louder as you play lower on the instrument. The open B string is almost too huge...or maybe it is too huge. I think the bass sounds awesome in someone else's hands, but I rarely play it as I typically prefer a more open and even sound. IMHO, best uses for this bass: backing a Southern Baptist gospel choir.
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I wonder if you missed this section of my response to your initial post in this thread:
TuneSalad666 said:
From the little personal experience I have with other bass pickup types than the P/J format one came pretty close to what I want to achieve though, the Seymour Duncan Rickenbacker neck pickup, which is a ceramic blade humbucker.

Hard to say of course how much of the tone did actually come from the pickup and how much of it could be credited to the specific bass I used it in and the placement of the pickup.

Also it didn't seem to produce quite as full and punchy a tone as I have in mind, though I'd definitely describe it as having some very clear and articulate piano like qualities about it.
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As you can read here my own, admittedly quite limited, experience with humbucker pickups used in a bass reveals something quite different from your description of a typical humbucker pickup.

How would you explain that?
 
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#55
<<
One of my goals was a fuller, richer tone though, which seems to fit the humbucker description.
>>

You could just get one of the many good hum cancelling PJ options available out there and pair it with an active circuit and be done with it. I don't know if Nordstrand has come out with a hum cancelling version of their powerblade J pickups yet, but their Powerblade P-Bass pickup sounds really good to me ... old school P sound "on steroids".



There's an excellent chance that one of these bad boys will end up in one of my P-Basses someday.
 
#56
I think that what the OP wants us to find for him is a pair of standard J-Bass sized pickups with two coils placed side-by-side and not end-to-end or one atop the other that sound like big and wide MM-style humbuckers with an extended top end and none of the muddiness inherent to most side-by-side coil (PAF-like) pickup designs.
I have not seen or heard of such a pickup, and the reason might be that such a beast is either physically or electrically not feasible. Or it could be that there is no market for such a thing.
I think it is possible that OP is attempting to turn his Jazz bass into something that sounds like an Entwistle Buzzard, but without making any routing mods.
Seriously, nobody here is attacking you. We want to be friends. We want to help. It looks to me as if we either don't have an answer that meets your satisfaction, the device which you seek does not exist, or possibly both.
 
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#57
TuneSalad666 said:
I wonder if you missed this section of my response to your initial post in this thread:


As you can read here my own, admittedly quite limited, experience with humbucker pickups used in a bass reveal something quite different from your description of a typical humbucker pickup.

How would you explain that?
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I have read the entire thread. I don't consider the Barts typical humbuckers. Rather they are an extreme example of the characteristics that humbuckers exhibit. They meet your requirement for rich and full, but in doing so have limited high frequency output.

If single coil and humbuckers exist at opposite ends of a tonal spectrum. Thick and full would be at one end of the spectrum with humbackers. Thin and bright would be at the opposite in of the spectrum with single coils. There are many possibilities between the extremes with more balanced frequency response. In the middle you might have a single coil and humbucker that sound almost exactly the same. One would be noiseless and the other would pick up hum from electromagnet emanations.

Perhaps, understanding of some electronics/physics can help you understand.

Basically as you add windings to a coil it becomes more inductive. The increased inductance emphasizes low frequency response and limits high frequency response. Inductors in series add (L1 + L2 = L total). So putting two pickup windings in series will increase their voltage output, increase lows, and limit highs. Equal inductors in parallel result in half the inductance value (L/2). When parallel inductors have disimilar values use the following formula.
10239.png



Connecting two pickup coils in parallel will reduce lows, extend highs, and reduce voltage output in comparison to the series arrangement.

There are other design factors that influence the frequency response as well.

Hope this helps.
 
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#60
Artman said:
I think that what the OP wants us to find for him is a pair of standard J-Bass sized pickups with two coils placed side-by-side and not end-to-end or one atop the other that sound like big and wide MM-style humbuckers with an extended top end and none of the muddiness inherent to most side-by-side coil (PAF-like) pickup designs.
I have not seen or heard of such a pickup, and the reason might be that such a beast is either physically or electrically not feasible. Or it could be that there is no market for such a thing.
I think it is possible that OP is attempting to turn his Jazz bass into something that sounds like an Entwistle Buzzard, but without making any routing mods.
Seriously, nobody here is attacking you. We want to be friends. We want to help. It looks to me as if we either don't have an answer that meets your satisfaction, the device which you seek does not exist, or possibly both.
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Very nicely done.
 
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