Do you think note names, or fingerings/patterns?

#21
I mix and match. Note names are definitely in the mix, though it’s not like I’m thinking of the name of each and every individual note I play. Nor is the number of each and every note in my head as I play. But I’ll have targets or be aware of where I’m at, and I might think of that target as the V or, say, as ‘E’ (or whatever note, depending on key), whichever way comes to my brain and my line of thinking at the moment. Other ways of thinking about things come into play, too
 
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#22
I'm terrible at learning and memorizing stuff without sheet music. I don't think note names or positions, it's more of a non-verbal, automatic thing, and I can more easily commit it to motor memory without going through the verbal part of my brain. If sheet music isn't available, I'll transcribe it myself.
 
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#23
Dusky Bass said:
Moderators: feel free to move/suggest another thread. Not sure where this would be fit best.

Hi, bass friends. General question for the group: When learning a tune, do you tend to memorize the notes, or fingerings/patterns/shapes?
Click to expand...

Both.

I'll remember the patterns on songs I play frequently and am on autopilot, and not run the notes in my head as a play. I usually think of the root and chord form I'm working around, but not necessarily each note name.

I've learned the fretboard well enough to think about the individual notes when I need to know. While I subconsciously might still start with patterns, such as arpeggios and scales backward and forward, as well as inversions, I can still think of the notes involved and skip or rearrange them while creating lines or solos from scratch.

If you're only thinking of patterns now, practice calling out the notes and where they fall in chord tones or scales. No bass handy, say while traveling, break, or the beach? Try it on a paper. There are fretboard charts on the web you can print and write on. A few minutes a day most days, and you'll think differently in no time.
 
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#24
Learning new songs happens in stages for me.
1 - Listen to song enough times that i know what it sounds like.
2 - Chart song using notes.
3 - Add numbering system notation to chart in case we need to transpose the song.
4 - Practice, practice, practice.

I'm self taught, so I came up relying on patterns over notes. Then, thirty years ago, I broke my A string on a gig and it threw everything off. I've since committed myself to know the notes across the board, which led me to learn scales and the corresponding numbers that go with them. Patterns are still there, but they're a lot more vivid now. Notes lead to numbers which lead to patterns.

As an addendum, learning the numbering system has had a tremendous benefit to my ear training.
 
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#25
I think in terms of intervals from the root, and a chord’s role in the context of the key (Roman numeral).

For example, that old saw blues/early rock walking bass line to me is 1st, 3rd, 5th, 6th, minor 7th, 6th, 5th, 3rd, 1st. Then I can transpose any song to any key without thinking a lot about it.

My brain is just better thinking quickly with numbers than letters.
 
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#26
Dusky Bass said:
Moderators: feel free to move/suggest another thread. Not sure where this would be fit best.

Hi, bass friends. General question for the group: When learning a tune, do you tend to memorize the notes, or fingerings/patterns/shapes? I noticed that if I rely on remembering the fingers, I tend to get too locked in to playing things in the same position over and over and my brain gets stuck in "fret numbers and patterns" mode. To expand a little; if say another musician asked what I'm playing, I don't readily describe it as "oh, it's Bb to Eb then F...", but rather I default to, "err.. I'm playing the 1st fret on the A string, then the 5th fret on the A with my third finger, then the 5th fret right below it on the D string with my fourth finger..." and it just feels so "non-musician-ly" of me. I've always struggled to more quickly grab the note names and describe what's happening in musical terms, e.g. "I'm moving from the V to the VI in the bar before the chorus...".

So, when I attempt to play a tune I've been working on and try moving the phrasing around a bit to a different position, I get so thrown off because I relied on knowing the fingerings/pattern versus knowing the fretboard and notes and what's happening with the chords at a bigger level. It bothers me because I want to be able to float freely around the fretboard and switch up where I play a phrase, but I realize that if I keep on old habits of memorizing fingerings (and fretboard numbers!), I'll likely never get achieve that freedom. 😭 How do I break this habit?
Click to expand...
Patterns and Intervals….at any given point hearing and being able to play 3rds, 5th, 6th, 7ths…..flat 5’s, etc. a good trick, try to play a smooth 1, 4, 5 walking bass line on a single string….than add two strings, etc.
 
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#27
When I was a wee bass lad I got a couple of Hal Leanoard method books and started with notes. That helped me in high school band but mostly as I started playing rock it was by ear so patterns started evolving. After laying it down for a few years I started playing from charts so notes kind of, but still built on patterns that I learned. I've recently learned numbering system so once I felt comfy with that I've started forcing myself to learn some new patterns ands it's helped a lot during the worship set at my church. It used to be hard to play a song in a non-guitar friendly key (Bb or Eb) but now with numbers I can flow pretty easily.
 
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#28
I always think in notes. I’m a self taugh bass player coming from piano and various woodwinds. When I first started playing bass in high school I my parents let me pick out a couple books to start with and it was mostly scales and some fingering patterns it had more advanced concepts towards the back that I wasn’t ready for. Practiced scales for all of a week (an intense week mind you) got REALLY bored and just wanted to play songs. Couldn’t stand learning scales on piano either. My piano teacher would get on me all the time for not practicing my scales, but for the most part could sight read anything she put in front of me. Anyway, started learning songs by Metallica, Megadeth, Rush, Pearl Jam, Journey, 311 in addition to figuring out how to play jazz from the hash marked sheet music from school.

Now 30 years later I mess around with learning patterns sometimes, but I don’t really care. I just wanna play music and despise “practicing”.
 
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#30
when learning material I think in all ways: patterns, note names, modes, chord progressions, arpeggios, passing/chromatic tones etc - and especially sound
I try to understand the part from as many angels as possible.

Once I have really learned a part I do not think at all,
I listen to the whole band and respond from a non-analytical place
But it takes a lot of practice and repetition to get there.
 
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#33
Dusky Bass said:
Moderators: feel free to move/suggest another thread. Not sure where this would be fit best.

Hi, bass friends. General question for the group: When learning a tune, do you tend to memorize the notes, or fingerings/patterns/shapes? I noticed that if I rely on remembering the fingers, I tend to get too locked in to playing things in the same position over and over and my brain gets stuck in "fret numbers and patterns" mode. To expand a little; if say another musician asked what I'm playing, I don't readily describe it as "oh, it's Bb to Eb then F...", but rather I default to, "err.. I'm playing the 1st fret on the A string, then the 5th fret on the A with my third finger, then the 5th fret right below it on the D string with my fourth finger..." and it just feels so "non-musician-ly" of me. I've always struggled to more quickly grab the note names and describe what's happening in musical terms, e.g. "I'm moving from the V to the VI in the bar before the chorus...".

So, when I attempt to play a tune I've been working on and try moving the phrasing around a bit to a different position, I get so thrown off because I relied on knowing the fingerings/pattern versus knowing the fretboard and notes and what's happening with the chords at a bigger level. It bothers me because I want to be able to float freely around the fretboard and switch up where I play a phrase, but I realize that if I keep on old habits of memorizing fingerings (and fretboard numbers!), I'll likely never get achieve that freedom. 😭 How do I break this habit?
Click to expand...
I use all three methods. Having started out my musical journey in school band programs, I was taught standard notation and that is the base from which I operate.

I use positional playing as a “short hand” which is very useful for figuring out songs or transposing from one key to the next. Say for instance you learn a song and you show up and the singer wants the key to be a step higher or lower, you don’t have to relearn the whole song note by note. You find the root and the fingering (intervals between pitch) is the same just one or two frets in either direction.

I will add this, when dealing in larger ensembles, especially when working with symphonic instruments, or studied keyboardists, knowing the note name and musical terms and being able to articulate them will save a lot of stressful situations. I was fortunate that my school offered two years of music theory courses which served me in good stead all these years.

I hope this was useful. Best wishes.
 
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#34
I mostly think in notes/chords/intervals when I play or listen. I think learning to read music helped. Trying to play the same riff/passage/part In as many different neck positions, octaves, and fingering patterns as possible really helps you learn the finger board. Trying to play the same part in all 12 keys really helps too.
 
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#36
Mostly in melodies..
my background is piano and I have perfect pitch (which is more a curse than a blessing there's litteraly an annoying person inside your head whispering note names... in italian.. do re mi etc) but that dosen't help me so much on bass..
tbh I'd probably be better at bass if I thought more in structures patterns etc..

best is not to think at all right
 
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#38
Wow, thanks so much for sharing your thoughts, everyone - some very helpful bits here!

I think I've identified my major disconnect as not actively "saying" (even to myself) what notes/scale degree/chord I'm playing so that it becomes more about those aspects rather than the fret position; and yes - even first grounding myself in the key! I think this habit has carried over with me for many years since I first started on guitar as an early teen where I learned and became reliant on tablature to learn songs quickly. Even having gone to music school for guitar later, I had a habit of reading the standard music notation and then in my head translating it to tablature and fingerings. I think this is the core of my struggle!

I also think that I should spend more time being able to sing the line/melody so that I'm internalizing it more musically, and less about "where" it's played. I love the idea of separating "what" and "where". You all have been very helpful; thank you!
 
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#39
Some possibly pertinent thoughts...

During my career over three decades as a public school orchestra, band, and jazz ensemble teacher, I'd frequently get into discussions with colleagues as to the best way to approach instrumental small group lessons and large ensemble music instruction.

Many of my colleagues were focused on winning competitions, public acclaim, and impressive sounding aggressive technical ensembles. Their approach to small group lessons was to group the students according to what part they played in band (i.e., all of the third trumpets attended lessons together) and during the lesson the band director drilled the band music, usually by rote, over and over until the kids could mindlessly get through it. No etudes, no sight reading, no theory, little or no warmups or tone exercises..just brute force "mastering" of a specific part to play. This approach did, usually, achieve the goal of fairly clean technical performances of the pieces being learned and, yes, many trophies. However, the kids learned pretty much nothing they could use in the future, other than, say, the third trumpet part to the latest band work currently in vogue.

My approach was to be constantly learning how to truly master the instrument at hand, look at a printed score and be able to truly HEAR it at sight, learn enough theory to be able to analyze and understand what they were playing, produce beautiful tone and play with accurate pitch, and be aware of ALL of the parts around them. I NEVER (not almost never....NEVER) worked on our large ensemble music in lessons, and chose the large ensemble music so that my students could successfully sight read about 75-80% of it, and learn the rest in rehearsal or practicing their folders at home. The focus in rehearsals was ALWAYS on musicianship; listening, blending, working together, sensitivity, etc. I constantly reminded my students that even the simplest music can be beautiful and elevated in their hands, and that anyone, with enough time and brute force, can learn technical challenges. The real challenges and rewards lie elsewhere.

Sooo.. how did my ensembles compare to others with the other approach? Well... My groups progressed slower at first. However, without exception, by the end of each school year there was no comparison. My kids could play whatever I put in front of them, and make real music on the first reading. The other ensembles were at square one and sounded just like they did at the beginning of the year every time a new piece of music was put in front of them. Despite my aversion to turning music into a competition sport, my last district demanded it the second year of my employment so I took my orchestras to a national competition in Florida. We won the national title. I also refused to ever do it again...

What does this have to do with the OP's question? Learn the music....not the fingerings or patterns. If you learn the music, and you learn your instrument, you can play the music wherever you need to, whenever you need to. The goal, at least the long-term one, is mastery and fluency, not a single specific passage. Always practice with that in mind.
 
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