Does "Handcrafted" have any impact on your buying decisions?

[Passinwind]

Would love any feedback you all might have for me.

I don't do bolt-ons or clone basses, so it's more or less a non starter for me.

But a good friend of mine is currently making the transition to CNC machining for many of his basses. The higher end ones will have a lot
more hand work. Charging less for hand made stuff is the wrong tack IMHO. Make it indisputably nicer, charge more.

 

[jaminjamesp]

I think there are two camps. There’s

Honestly, this discussion is why I like that many companies are now offering a cheaper option that is cut in asia... while still offering the full blown USA versions... although the existence of the cheaper option also cheapens the company to some shoppers. I had a friend that bought a PRS in the mid 90's...boy was he furious years later when he walked into GC and saw an SE for like $600. The next show he played, one of the openers was a terrible metal band of 16 year olds and their guitarist said "nice prs! I have two of em!" I laughed so hard but felt the same way after playing Warwick for years in the 90's and then suddenly there were rockbasses that could be had for like $500. It felt like they revoked the prestige that they sold me in the first place. Lets be honest... exclusivity and prestige are part of what you pay for when you're buying a higher end instrument. Mayones, Fodera, F bass... there are entry prices to being an owner of these instruments.

the camp that likes to pay for exclusivity, and the camp who appreciates the exclusivity, but is more interested in quality, if it’s not an exclusive price.

This has left me struggling on how to price. I would want them to be available to workig musicians who often times don’t have tons of money, we are the ones who actually makes good use of the quality. But I don’t want to price them so low that their perceived value is diminished. I know speaking for myself, If im comparing products and don’t have a lot of info on either one, I’ll end up choosing the slightly more expensive option because in my mind cost = quality.

 

[jaminjamesp]

I don't do bolt-ons or clone basses, so it's more or less a non starter for me.

But a good friend of mine is currently making the transition to CNC machining for many of his basses. The higher end ones will have a lot
more hand work. Charging less for hand made stuff is the wrong tack IMHO. Make it indisputably nicer, charge more.

Agree it doesn’t make good business sense on a large scale. But this is about the joy of building for me, and having a small business that allows me to keep cost reasonably low and offer a better product. It’s not really big money making scheme. I think starting out I’d have to price fairly low just to be competive with brands that have more name recognition.

If I never was able to increase my profit margins by raising prices, I see that as okay. I’m not in this to get rich. I’m in it for the joy of it, and being able to pass that joy along to others.

 

[MordBass]

Agree it doesn’t make good business sense on a large scale. But this is about the joy of building for me, and having a small business that allows me to keep cost reasonably low and offer a better product. It’s not really big money making scheme. I think starting out I’d have to price fairly low just to be competive with brands that have more name recognition.

If I never was able to increase my profit margins by raising prices, I see that as okay. I’m not in this to get rich. I’m in it for the joy of it, and being able to pass that joy along to others.

I would imagine that your attitude is the right one to have for success. They guys that are in it for money are asking themselves which corners to cut from day 1.

 

[Passinwind]

Agree it doesn’t make good business sense on a large scale. But this is about the joy of building for me, and having a small business that allows me to keep cost reasonably low and offer a better product. It’s not really big money making scheme. I think starting out I’d have to price fairly low just to be competitive with brands that have more name recognition.

If I never was able to increase my profit margins by raising prices, I see that as okay. I’m not in this to get rich. I’m in it for the joy of it, and being able to pass that joy along to others.

I'm more or less a fellow traveler, although I prefer herding electrons to making sawdust. My advice would be that if you feel you have to sell low to get your foot in the door, don't talk about it much if at all. I have a few cautionary tales, but I can't really share them on TB, for a variety of reasons.

 

[Axstar]

Every bass is hand crafted to some degree.

 

[jaminjamesp]

I'm more or less a fellow traveler, although I prefer herding electrons to making sawdust. My advice would be that if you feel you have to sell low to get your foot in the door, don't talk about it much if at all. I have a few cautionary tales, but I can't really share them on TB, for a variety of reasons. View attachment 2824046

PM me your tales! Also curious what you meant by “don’t talk about it much.” Don’t talk about pricing or don’t talk about the product?

 

[Thumpin6string]

I looked into doing that after building my basses. I found that if you don't mind working for $5/Hr +or-, you might sell some. To get what my time is worth, no one would pay the price needed unless I had a well known name or track record. Of course this is just my experience.

 

[Passinwind]

PM me your tales! Also curious what you meant by “don’t talk about it much.” Don’t talk about pricing or don’t talk about the product?

I will be happy to take this to PM. I'm mainly trying to pimp design work, and non disclosure agreements are becoming a bigger part of my world these days.

And yeah, don't talk about pricing too much right off. Let the market tell you.

 

[DigitalMan]

I’d say there are a lot of options already so the key will be differentiating.

Hand made can sound good or bad depending on who the audience is. What would you say that makes it good? Better fit and finish? Ability to hit a precise weight target? Hand-selecting each piece of wood? Can you offer stylized finishes and make works of art? Can you duplicate someone’s favorite player?

Getting pockets and pickup routes right does seem to be the domain of CNC. How are you going to convince people otherwise?

 

[JimmyM]

Honestly, this discussion is why I like that many companies are now offering a cheaper option that is cut in asia... while still offering the full blown USA versions... although the existence of the cheaper option also cheapens the company to some shoppers. I had a friend that bought a PRS in the mid 90's...boy was he furious years later when he walked into GC and saw an SE for like $600. The next show he played, one of the openers was a terrible metal band of 16 year olds and their guitarist said "nice prs! I have two of em!" I laughed so hard but felt the same way after playing Warwick for years in the 90's and then suddenly there were rockbasses that could be had for like $500. It felt like they revoked the prestige that they sold me in the first place. Lets be honest... exclusivity and prestige are part of what you pay for when you're buying a higher end instrument. Mayones, Fodera, F bass... there are entry prices to being an owner of these instruments.

Oh well, that's life.

 

[Liam Wald]

The term handcrafted doesn't mean much really.
Something can be handcrafted by a "craftsman" who has a low level of skill, has little attention to detail, or uses inferior materials. Like most other things, craftsmanship ranges in quality on a scale from one to ten.
What does "Crafted in Indonesia" or "Crafted in China" mean to you?
Or when Granny says, "I am going to the senior center this afternoon for a crafts class." And comes home with a handcrafted vest made from pop-tops.
BooYa!

 

[MordBass]

Oh well, that's life.

Its also the removal of a value proposition for potential buyers.

 

[Dean N]

Low price may be a draw, but in this rather saturated market, you'll need something else to set yourself apart (i.e., branding). Nontraditional, domestic woods, maybe. Something like that.

 

[JimmyM]

Its also the removal of a value proposition for potential buyers.

I don't see it that way myself. I don't think anyone's cheaper gear compares to their more expensive gear. I see it as opening up a market that wasn't there for them before, and making it more possible for them to stay afloat and make the good stuff, which doesn't have near the sales or profit margin.

 

[mobdirt]

Funny ive heard "seems factory built" about hand made stuff

 

[Nephilymbass]

I’ve always been a hobby woodworker, and here recently I've been hand building and finishing bass and guitar bodies, mostly for friends as gifts, a few for myself, and several for a local repair shop. Based on my own objective observations, and the feedback from others, they're a notch above offerings from the big replacement part sellers. The curves and contours feel sexier, the wood is lighter and more consistent, the neck pocket fit is tighter, and the finish is better.

Because I build it all myself and don't outsource anything, I could sell handcrafted bodies with a variety of finishes (vintage, factory new, lacquer, acrylic, poly) for considerably less than a body from Warmoth sent off to a paint shop for finishing (still less than a finished body from Warmoth). I’ve been toying with the idea of purchasing a few more tools, making some modifications to my garage shop, and making it a little side business.

What do you guys think? I realize the neck plays such a huge role in the tone and feel of an instrument. But it often seems like the craftsmanship of bodies is neglected. Besides a select few luthiers out there, I don't think anyone is handcrafting bodies, especially not replacement bodies. Is this because it just doesn't really matter to anyone? Does everyone just see the body as a hunk of wood that the important bits attach to? Is my obsession with a perfect body lost on everyone else? If you could buy handcrafted from a reputable small shop, for less than CNC from a mass producer, would that be interesting to you?

Would love any feedback you all might have for me.

I would give it a shot. Start slowly and see how it goes. Probably wouldn’t stock up hundreds of bodies though just make them to order or as demand requires.

As for the handcrafted stuff. To me there’s a big difference from a bass that’s basically completely made by CNC then just assembled vs a bass that might be roughly cut by CNC and finished by hand. My main bass is like that for example; cut by CNC then sanded and everything by hand.

 

[Gilmourisgod]

• As an amateur builder myself, I have great admiration and affection for hand built guitars and basses, but its an uphill climb as a viable business. I am consistently amazed by the quality of some of the low-end basses, mainly Indonesian manufacture, and its hard to compete with that low price point unless you can really carve out a niche for yourself. I think as long as you are willing to risk a little investment in time and tools, its worth a shot. The unfortunate truth is that many hand crafted builders find they are working for minimum wage. Its hard to find people willing to pay a lot more for that last 10% of fit and finish you get with a hand crafted item. You have to be ruthlessly honest with your self about what you are willing to work for. I love doing it as a hobby, but hitting deadlines and price points would probably drain the fun out of it for me. Post some photos of your work, youll get some honest assessment here on TB.
• Edit: TB'er @Brucejohnson is the best example of a niche builder I know of on TB. He is the only real expert and current builder of Ampeg basses, and also does specific custom parts like necks and truss rod systems. Reading his posts is a real education in the mindset required to do this sucessfully.

 

[jaminjamesp]

Every bass is hand crafted to some degree.

For sure, no doubt about that! I’m referring to the entire process. My wood supplier let’s me spend all day in their warehouse with my scale, sorting through boards. I get to hold and examine each one before I even have to pay for it. Each body blank is thoughtfully assembled in no hurry to meet production quotas. Every body is cut and contoured by hand. When I’m contouring I use my template to start, but I’ve found every piece of wood wants to hug against the body just a little bit differently. Two pieces of wood who were once strangers are now bound for life, and when they come together they they need a little coaxing that is different than the body before. Finishing sanding is finer. Grain filling isn’t rushed. Every color coat is sanded flat, and each clear coat as well.

If you’re a big company, or even a smaller company with lots of orders to fill, it can be harder to take that kind of time at every step. And maybe at the end of the day it doesn’t make THAT big of difference to most. But I think some people take pride in owning something that someone else took pride in creating.

 

[JimmyM]

For sure, no doubt about that! I’m referring to the entire process. My wood supplier let’s me spend all day in their warehouse with my scale, sorting through boards. I get to hold and examine each one before I even have to pay for it. Each body blank is thoughtfully assembled in no hurry to meet production quotas. Every body is cut and contoured by hand. When I’m contouring I use my template to start, but I’ve found every piece of wood wants to hug against the body just a little bit differently. Two pieces of wood who were once strangers are now bound for life, and when they come together they they need a little coaxing that is different than the body before. Finishing sanding is finer. Grain filling isn’t rushed. Every color coat is sanded flat, and each clear coat as well.

If you’re a big company, or even a smaller company with lots of orders to fill, it can be harder to take that kind of time at every step. And maybe at the end of the day it doesn’t make THAT big of difference to most. But I think some people take pride in owning something that someone else took pride in creating.

Wow dude, you really have no other choice than to pursue this the way you feel about wood! I'd just ask for a fair price. If you build quality and offer things nobody else can, clients will come.