Don't want to be the uptight one anymore

#61
duruk said:
For once, I want to stop being so uptight be an easy-going band mate and enjoy the music I make. Does anyone feel anything similar? Any insight would be appreciated.
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Very common.

Three paths come to mind: 1. Find a complete group that shares your values and goals, 2. Make an internal adjustment so you can accept the typical BS, 3. Get out of the rat race.

It's easier to be tolerant when you first start and are driven to make music. At this stage playing bass can be like an addiction, and since you are motivated by internal joy, none of the extraneous BS tends to bother you that much.

Unfortunately, over time making music starts to feel more and more like work. Something that I feel can sustain you is the pursuit of continued self-improvement. However, eventually you reach a point where the motivation to improve can be stifled. What's the point if you are way better than the job requires and your band mates don't really aspire to excellence. In my experience, once you loose the drive to improve, you are nearing the end as a performer. Many people continue well beyond this point, but they don't seem to take any joy from making music...and to be blunt, they frequently suck!

I eventually chose option 3. Around 2008 I crossed to audio and had a blast for a couple of more years. Since then I have done a handful of gigs on bass to help people out. IMHO, playing bass was fun for about 5 minutes.

I do still regularly put in time on bass, so I could still do the work if I had to. But this day I have no interest in being a in a group.
 
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#62
If only humans knew how to move on from things or people that make them unhappy. I’m definitely guilty. I wish I listened over the years when older folks gave me advice to stop shackling myself to situations that made me miserable. For the sake of honoring the people that gave me good advice(whom I ignored), I vote move on.
 
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#63
pepj said:
Sure, you can sub for a gig and walk away thinking their problems remain their problems but i cant spend time cramming or prepping and then find the band are not on the same page.
I dont want to find out too late so I try and screen the few subs I'm willing to do and they need to offer me more than just a gig with pay.
Otherwise, they are just too much work for the money, and I've got better things to do.

I've got 5 projects..4 are up and running, ie, gigging, but a lot of homework still. (I know they will pay off but they are currently busting my balls) so I really dont need to carry any non functioning players.
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Devil's advocate/tough love: Now it sounds like you're blaming band mates for your work load. YOU chose to take on 5 projects and yes it's a huge responsibility and a lot of work. And yes, that situation is a way lot easier when you're working with professional minded bandmates. But realistically, it's tough to find ONE band that has the level of skill and commitment that you seek. Expecting to find 5 of them is a bit of a dream. I don't know your market, but in mine, it's hard to find quality players that are available; sometimes we need to settle for close enough.

You'll drive yourself mad expecting everyone around you to live up to your expectations. My advice is to walk away from the projects that make you nuts - your mates are NOT going to change and you'll just be in that proverbial circle looking for a corner all your life.

For my "sub life", if I found the experience to be unrewarding, I just won't work with them again. I'm lucky to be the "6th man" for a band that respects me (they get to play 20-30 more gigs a year because I'm available for them) and trusts that I'll be ready for them. They're not perfect, but we have zero drama and we have fun.
 
#65
Come to the gig or rehearsal giving 110% the best you can for yourself.
That's about all you can do.
If the band sucks too bad, or drugs and alcohol are out of control, then you may have to decide to move on. As a person that doesn't imbibe I find 90% of the time I'm the odd man out -- it is an amateur band.
Keep searching for better situiations. I don't disagree with your frustration with some situations. But you don't want to be the one who keeps bitching - peeps aren't going to necessarily listen to someone constantly harping = I mean, has it worked so far? Sometimes one just has to look at attaining satisfaction in one's own performance - it never goes unnoticed by those who know who's carrying a band.
That's all I got. Peace and good luck to you :)
 
#66
mrcbass said:
Devil's advocate/tough love: Now it sounds like you're blaming band mates for your work load. YOU chose to take on 5 projects and yes it's a huge responsibility and a lot of work. And yes, that situation is a way lot easier when you're working with professional minded bandmates. But realistically, it's tough to find ONE band that has the level of skill and commitment that you seek. Expecting to find 5 of them is a bit of a dream. I don't know your market, but in mine, it's hard to find quality players that are available; sometimes we need to settle for close enough.

You'll drive yourself mad expecting everyone around you to live up to your expectations. My advice is to walk away from the projects that make you nuts - your mates are NOT going to change and you'll just be in that proverbial circle looking for a corner all your life.
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The 2 projects that are busting my balls
are just an intense period of getting with the workload. They will work out, the quality is there but its a tough set list from start up but we are gigging already.
A blues project promises gigs next year and so recording is all it is atm. I'll believe their Promo if it happens. New RnB gig will be a light load because the 'deep cuts' will only work certain places. But could be exciting.

So I'm not blaming anyone and no one is forcing me. I'm just saying that i have enough to do..happy to do it...just dont want anyone wasting time. If any of these 'gigs' labour, I'll cast them off.
The 5th project is ready made and falls into place but 2 of the guys can't work much..we only come out for a handful of gigs a year. Will see.
3 months ago, I had 1 band which I'm now leaving.

The above is the result of me re-networking in the spring because I knew the band I was in was just too tough to book.
All change in 6 months.
But yep, know your market and stay current and let people know you're available to replace the deadwood bands.
 
#67
The problem is you are expecting people to be someone they are not. Just accept them for who they are and figure out how you can adapt yourself to interact with them more productively. The only thing you can count on is that they will never change to suit you.
 
#69
I solved this problem by joining a band full of perfectionists... but I also probably missed some cool opportunities by being too stubborn... and also let some fun times be less fun on account of my own being stuck in my head.

If you can practice letting your guard down a bit, you may be glad later.
 
#70
there's a saying "accept more. expect less."
I was telling my current wife this story the other day...
I got a CD that just knocked me out. I gave it to a friend... he returned it saying he "hated it"...
A realization that not everybody likes what I like, does things the way I do, sees the same world the same way as I...
but ya know, buddy... it ain't so. It just ain't so.
let it go... enjoy the music. if you don't enjoy it... keep moving on.
 
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#74
mrcbass said:
I have similar "social attributes" and it has cost me band roles in the past. It's hard to see things that, in my view, need to be addressed to make situations better....
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FIFY: "It's hard to see things that, in my view, need to be addressed to make situations better" without talking to the band about it.

I've dealt with it for years and now I've just given up. They don't want to rehearse, don't want to learn any new songs, work on "parts" or harmony vocals, are happy playing songs we don't know at gigs (the rest of us following the BL who is reading the chords and lyrics from his iPad), and are generally okay presenting a lackluster "show" that many beginner bands would probably be embarrassed about. We could, IMO, be SO much better but we get a lot of gigs as we are and the other three guys seem happy with how things are done, and it only frustrates them, and me, when I speak up, so I've learned/decided to just keep quiet and go with the flow. It's better for my blood pressure, too.
 
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#75
I'd love to not be uptight but it's my nature and I deal with it. It's not my bandmates fault, or my wife's, or my kids. It's just how I'm wired. If I delegate things I am usually critical of how they did it. So to avoid hard feelings I do it myself.

That carries to gigs in that aside from singing and playing, I run the lights and the sound. So my bandmates are counting on me to make it all work and to sound good. That translates to me being pretty high strung during setup and even to tear down to be sure things are put back where I know to find them at the next setup. My bandmates have "assigned" jobs that they carry out the same way every time and it works.

People close to me get it, if I get quiet, if I say I need a minute, it's done. When I get over that "hill", whatever it is, I'll make it known. And I'll ask for help if it's needed. It's how I've always been and will be. You can function that way without being rude, just explain it ahead of time. Gonna be the big 6-0 in November so old dog-new tricks now.
 
#76
I've never been in a band where the commitment level of others was a concern for me.
I did my best and saw no evidence that others were not also doing so.
Except maybe that one time the drummer was laying on the floor in a pink gorilla suit, too high to practice.
He did get replaced, eventually. I Laughed about it then as now.

I think I am able to keep a laissez-faire attitude
because I strive to let go of outcomes and just do try to my part.
Other peoples failings inevitably jam up something
I can't control it, so I refuse to stress about it.

Take a deep breath, accept "I guess that's how he was raised"
and back to my sphere of control: what can I do to help the gig?
aim to be skilled and flexible enough to navigate a train wreck,
or follow others who stray, and at least make it look like we meant to do it.

If I were a band leader I may have a different attitude
some people may need editing
 
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#77
Pretty much every band management post, at its core is that everyone on the band isn't on the same page, and some one in the group has different expectations about what is "good", what is "good enough", how many gigs, what material, how much pay... There are no right answers to any of those questions. only answers that the band has to agree on. If everyone in the band wants to play reggae originals 3 hours a night, every night of the week for no pay, then great! I'm out the door, but as long as it works for them then no problem.

If you're up tight because you want it to be perfect. then that's only a problem if everyone else feels differently. If they want to be tighter, then your attitude can be put to good use. However that's probably not the case, and you're getting stressed because you want to make fixes and its not happening... Now you're unhappy a) because its not as good as you want it to be, AND b) your efforts to improve it are failing. And everyone else is unhappy because you're nagging them.

My main band the guitarist is the stress perfectionist. When he gets something his his head you just go along with it... but generally its a tight band, and we all want it to be as good as possible. Occasionally people get frustrated by his stressing, but we let it go, because we know its coming from a good place.

One side project, is still a work in progress. I'm probably the most experienced there, so I have to take a more active roll and be the critical one. But that's fine because we all understand what we're working towards. WE know how good the band is now, and we know how good it needs to be to achieve the things we want to with ti.

Another side project, is a bit of a mess. I know its a mess. I don't think some of the others do... But I'm doing it for different reasons. I'm absolutely not going to stress that the band isn't great. I'm not going to tell one of the others that he needs to learn the parts properly, and should be looking stuff up on his phone at rehearsal... Does it annoy me? yes, , but I knew what I was getting into when I signed up, and there were other reasons to say yes. Basically it doesn't matter that its a bit of a mess right now. Maybe they'll sort it out, maybe they won't. I didn't join to be BL and/or fix them. I'll run its course and I'm just along for the ride.

Basically every band has a place where it is. You don't need to "live" in that place as a musician, but when. you're visiting that place, you need to just accept the rules of that place. Where are the band? Were do they want to be? Where are you? where do you want to be? Are they're happy to aligh they goals with yours, or are you happy to alighn your goals with theirs? If yes then you can either put your stress to good use and they get better, you can stop being stressed and accept where they are, or you can accept that there isn't a mutual place and part ways.
 
#78
duruk said:
I have been playing bass for more than 10 years, been in and out of many bands through various genres, never considered myself as a great bass player (but always tried to compensate by working my parts more than enough) and worked with musicians who I perceive to be both above and below my level of musicianship.

However I have always been unhappy about a certain aspect of the people or bands I worked with. Either they did not come to rehersals prepared, did not have adequate control over their instrument, did not select the right songs, did want to rehearse too much or too little, did not know how to entertain the audience, did not listen to what other band members played on stage, did play too fast or too slow, played drunk, did not know how to set the right price for shows etc. The list goes on and on.. I feel like I can rant forever. And there have been bad shows, a lot of them. where I could read the boredom of audiences from their faces and the band members still blamed the audience for "not knowing how to have fun" and not recognizing the fact that the band did not groove!

I'm feeling tired; I am fed up with being the one who always points out the shortcomings, the mistakes. Sometimes I try to convince myself, I must be really the only one who's wrong on how things should be running. That the show we did last week was actually "not that bad" (but somehow the band was not rehired the week after). But then they do something that (according to me) denies all logic and I find myself trying to "correct" people again. I actually blabber a lot, trying not to offend people but still wanting to correct them. And this happens so regularly and through so many different bands I am sure some people must see me as a PoS. For once, I want to stop being so uptight be an easy-going band mate and enjoy the music I make. Does anyone feel anything similar? Any insight would be appreciated.
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Either be more scrutinizing when picking the bands you join or start your own band. In all seriousness, it can take quite a while, a year or more, to actively search and find the right band. If you start your own band, be prepared to spend a year scoping out quality players and band members. In addition to building the show, you’ll need to market like a mad man. And, be prepared to invest your money into the venture without making a profit for some time.

My initial band started with good friends in 2000. Over time, people had to bow out because of family or work obligations. I hired top players to backfill them. Downside, I didn’t check their character. Eventually, had a band of players that were in it for the money, no passion, always looking to check out early. I fired all of them. Took me 4 years to rebuild with great people. That new band has been going 6 years strong, is booked out 1 year in advance, and has won 2 best in the city awards over the last 3 years. Morale of this story, don’t be afraid to make bold moves and changes, and be willing to take the time to put all the right parts in place. Success takes action and patience :)
 
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#79
IanStephenson said:
Pretty much every band management post, at its core is that everyone on the band isn't on the same page, and some one in the group has different expectations about what is "good", what is "good enough", how many gigs, what material, how much pay... There are no right answers to any of those questions. only answers that the band has to agree on. If everyone in the band wants to play reggae originals 3 hours a night, every night of the week for no pay, then great! I'm out the door, but as long as it works for them then no problem.

If you're up tight because you want it to be perfect. then that's only a problem if everyone else feels differently. If they want to be tighter, then your attitude can be put to good use. However that's probably not the case, and you're getting stressed because you want to make fixes and its not happening... Now you're unhappy a) because its not as good as you want it to be, AND b) your efforts to improve it are failing. And everyone else is unhappy because you're nagging them.

My main band the guitarist is the stress perfectionist. When he gets something his his head you just go along with it... but generally its a tight band, and we all want it to be as good as possible. Occasionally people get frustrated by his stressing, but we let it go, because we know its coming from a good place.

One side project, is still a work in progress. I'm probably the most experienced there, so I have to take a more active roll and be the critical one. But that's fine because we all understand what we're working towards. WE know how good the band is now, and we know how good it needs to be to achieve the things we want to with ti.

Another side project, is a bit of a mess. I know its a mess. I don't think some of the others do... But I'm doing it for different reasons. I'm absolutely not going to stress that the band isn't great. I'm not going to tell one of the others that he needs to learn the parts properly, and should be looking stuff up on his phone at rehearsal... Does it annoy me? yes, , but I knew what I was getting into when I signed up, and there were other reasons to say yes. Basically it doesn't matter that its a bit of a mess right now. Maybe they'll sort it out, maybe they won't. I didn't join to be BL and/or fix them. I'll run its course and I'm just along for the ride.

Basically every band has a place where it is. You don't need to "live" in that place as a musician, but when. you're visiting that place, you need to just accept the rules of that place. Where are the band? Were do they want to be? Where are you? where do you want to be? Are they're happy to aligh they goals with yours, or are you happy to alighn your goals with theirs? If yes then you can either put your stress to good use and they get better, you can stop being stressed and accept where they are, or you can accept that there isn't a mutual place and part ways.
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Well said. I guess I'm the picky one wanting things right but maybe not realizing how that stresses out the other band members.
 
#80
51PRI said:
Well said. I guess I'm the picky one wanting things right but maybe not realizing how that stresses out the other band members.
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Depends what reaction you get.
If they up their game..assuming you want them to up their game, then fine.
If they slack off, you are not on the same page, and something has to give.

I try very hard not to have unknown entities in the first place.... and the guys are 'recommended' so you are then only really talking about stylistic interpretation to a small degree.
If you get missed cues, bodged solo's etc, these are the guys you weed out in the first place.

This is the only real value of subs to me...you meet new people but you have an out-route already.
 
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