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Feedback on speaker cabinets wanted
- Thread starter FUCHSAUDIO
- Start date
I'm not exactly in the target market, but I think not offering 8Ω cabs -- especially single-driver ones -- would be a marketing mistake. Even if all your own amps will handle 2Ω loads, not all of the potential buyers will have that capability.
I've never had a cab with Celestions, but have had cabs with the Delta Lite drivers from Eminence. They are a nice sounding driver. I've been using Epifani UL cabs for a while.. They have been using Eminence since their UL Series 2. I prefer the earlier UL cabs that use the B&C Neo drivers. They seem to put out a lot more low end. It also seems the driver of choice for custom builders are Faital. I have not used them. So maybe look into either of those?
4 and 8 versions are plus
Neo is enough IMO
Cele or Emi or anything else as long as it's OK
Tip of what kind of information I'd like to have before buying a cabinet:
Publish sound samples made with different prerecorded bass line, slap, finger, pick, tone open, tone down, distortion etc
Publish as well sound samples - recorded the same way - of most popular cabs on the market to provide comparison for customers
Record samples with the same amp settings, microphone, room etc. in order to reduce variables.
Show frequency response in real time like in this vid:
Neo is enough IMO
Cele or Emi or anything else as long as it's OK
Tip of what kind of information I'd like to have before buying a cabinet:
Publish sound samples made with different prerecorded bass line, slap, finger, pick, tone open, tone down, distortion etc
Publish as well sound samples - recorded the same way - of most popular cabs on the market to provide comparison for customers
Record samples with the same amp settings, microphone, room etc. in order to reduce variables.
Show frequency response in real time like in this vid:
- Mar 13, 2010
- 118
- 319
- 5,126
- Disclosures
- Owner and Chief Engineer: Fuchs Audio Technology LLC
- Mar 13, 2010
- 118
- 319
- 5,126
- Disclosures
- Owner and Chief Engineer: Fuchs Audio Technology LLC
We have access to B&C drivers (they warehouse in NJ). B&C now owns Eminence, in case you didn't hear.
I like small 8 ohm cabs 112 or 210
That I can stack together for 4ohm loads and more volume when needed
Assuming it sounds good I don't generally care about ceramic or celestion vs emminance
That I can stack together for 4ohm loads and more volume when needed
Assuming it sounds good I don't generally care about ceramic or celestion vs emminance
Would you want ceramic speakers offered as well in each configuration ?
No preference, other than whichever one is lightest in weight.
Would you want 8 as well as 4 ohm boxes available ?
Would want 8 ohm, yes
Do you have any preferences as to Eminence vs Celestion drivers ?
No preference, other than whichever one is lightest in weight.
Unsolicited feedback:
Ability to tilt-back a speaker cab is such an awesome feature. Not sure it's practical for manufacturers bottom line, but it's a feature I love and feel many players would benefit from. Especially if it can be used by the top cab in a 2-cab setup, like the old Genz Benz neox 12T's
Weight is everything to a lot of people like me. If the cabs aren't among the ultra-lightest examples that exist today, I have no interest. There are plenty of brands that sound great and are light. Would rather pay more to get the super light stuff.
Best of luck! Looking forward to seeing what comes out.
Good to see ya, Andy. I'm still rocking that early basement-build Fuchs ODS with the 70's Music Man iron and EL34's on guitar. It's been fine-tuned and I had to replace the noisy filter caps with F&T's; Killer amp after all these years. Looks like I'm about to start another weekly guitar gig; If so, it'll be pressed back into service.
By now you probably realize that out of a dozen answers, you'll get a dozen differing opinions.
Mine, FWIW:
Neos only, thanks. I'm playing bass every Fri/Sat. Just getting the cab in and out of the SUV gets old with heavier cabs. There's one gig a month where this is my loadin (coming up again this Fri):
Yes
My next cab will be 4 ohms to take full advantage of my head's available power. It'll be a 210 because I like the immediacy of 10's. It'll be 4 ohms because if I need to move more air, I'll use my 410 instead. For more than that, I've already got 2 8 ohm cabs that I rarely combine - stages/venues THAT large almost always come with good FOH sound support. If monitor support is good enough, I can leave the cabs (and head) behind and go preamp/DI.
From a marketing standpoint, Celestion may have a reputation, perhaps undeserved in bass drivers, for being "rock".
I don't personally have an opinion; I've never used a Celestion bass speaker, though would be open to it if it checked my boxes. I've loved their guitar speakers for decades, BTW.
From an application, standpoint, it's probably more important that accurate cab & port design calculations are used in combination with specific speaker frequency response, excursion and sensitivity.
I mention this despite these calculations being above my average intelligence; IME, there've been some cabs that have seemed designed on an idea rather than actual engineering; As in "let's take our successful 810 depth and width, and chop it down to a 410", that don't work at all for me. To state the obvious, bass cabs in particular should probably be mathematically designed, and mathematically designed around specific speakers.
You're most welcome.
Other personal wish list items for my next cab FYI - I know you've already got design in motion:
- Neos
- 210 - side-by-side, rotatable design with rubber feet on side and bottom
- Horn/tweeter with attenuation control
- 600-800 watts, 4 ohms
- 1/2" HDO plywood construction
- Ported
- Spring handles on 3 sides
- Dual parallel Neutrik SpeakON/1/4" combo jacks
- Cloth grill
- Padded cover
Last edited:
I have 4 Celestion 18's in my QSC KW181 subs. Stock. Subs have scores of gigs on them. No problems. I have no qualms with Eminence or Celestion. Have 2 cabs with 3015 LF's and 2 with Faital Pro PR400's. So - any driver that Fuchs is willing to stand behind. Good enough.
8 ohm options seem the most sensible to me.
Having a 'famlial' voicing. So a 1x12 is voiced the same as a 2x15 or 2x10 or ??? is the way to go. This harkens back to the fEarful days and the Subway series today.
8 ohm options seem the most sensible to me.
Having a 'famlial' voicing. So a 1x12 is voiced the same as a 2x15 or 2x10 or ??? is the way to go. This harkens back to the fEarful days and the Subway series today.
Focus on doing a small line of cabs well and don't provide many, if any, options. This might be an unpopular opinion, but I find that companies who offer everything tend to not really nail it with any of their offerings. There are exceptions, but I think starting out you should offer a small and a larger that's effectively two of the smaller cabs in a single box. That could be a 112/212 or a 210/410. Make them ported and include some type of high frequency driver to appeal to the largest market share. If those do well you could expand to other more specialty cabs, but if you nail those you'll likely do better than if you have a super diverse array of cabinets.
Regarding ceramic/neo and Eminence/Celestion options: Don't leave it up to the consumers or even focus testing such as this. Find a driver that you, as the designer, like and design the cab around it. If the resultant cab is light enough to be competitive, loud enough to be competitive, and meets your tone goals when paired with your amp then that was the right decision. Everything else will be a compromise.
Regarding ceramic/neo and Eminence/Celestion options: Don't leave it up to the consumers or even focus testing such as this. Find a driver that you, as the designer, like and design the cab around it. If the resultant cab is light enough to be competitive, loud enough to be competitive, and meets your tone goals when paired with your amp then that was the right decision. Everything else will be a compromise.
Ill not go back to ceramics based on weight. Lite is the new name of the game, the bar is set really high these days for loud/light/low.
I haven't had a bass cab with Celestions in.... maybe never. It screams "guitar" to me, and I acknowledge its a bias, one which works against it as a selling point. Its shouldnt matter. The Jenson/Sica stuff is amazing right now also. From your list, Eminence.
I have plenty of single cabs that are 8ohm. (read: 1x12). Im in the market for a 2x12 thats 4ohm.
I love my Aguilar TH500, but it pushing a single 8ohm 12" speaker isnt enough. When I drive it with a Bergantino Forte HP2 (about 600w at 8ohm) I can make that single 12 loud/full enough for what I do.
Ive often thought a 4ohm single 12" with a decent thermal rating would be great, maximize clean output from my prefered head.
I wouldnt buy an 8ohm 2x12, as I have multiple 8ohm 1x12"s.
More and more amps can handle 2.66 or 2hom loads these days, and its only become more common - makes 4ohm versions more and more attractive.
If I were to buy a 2x10, I would want a 4ohm personally. I can see how an 8ohm would be attractive to many as well.
Quoted to double-down on the "like"
It's a crowded market; and it's also a market where you are competing against pre-owned units... dare I say you're entering a market where a slice of the pie you're competing against is 20, 30 + year old units by companies that don't even exist today!
I'd be more than happy to chat via PM if you'd like to hear how I think I did it wrong, maybe you can glean some intel that will help you avoid the failure I experienced trying to nudge my way to the big boy table.
Best of luck to you!
And to address the OP:
Neo only
One line of drivers that sound the same so mix n match works
impedance is a b!+(H..... we want 8 ohm 1x 10 cabs but we also want 8 ohm 2x10s. I have no advice what to do about that. .. maybe you can offer 8 and 4 ohm 4x10s so at least both 10" driver models have TWO cabs they can go in?
15s are very popular and always will be
Wrap your cabs in tough finish (it's pricey but holy crap Line-x is indestructible) and steel (grill, corner protection, maybe even connector plates)
Speakon. Combo even better. Neutrik NL4 capable though
Taller is better than wider, but you kinda shouldn't be concerned beyond all YOUR amps fit, width-wise.
Bug-eye grills are ugly (ok opinion not advice)
TILT BACK KICK-STANDS on smaller cabs are frikken the awesomest bestest thing, like, ever
Please please please join the (AFAIK) party of one (Mesa) and PUBLISH the excursion-limited power rating. This really should be standard. I know it's a depressing-looking number, but it really does provide useful info for people who need to carry the house.
Last thoughts:
Be honest. Please don't let marketing rear-end you down the line. You don't want to get nailed on warranty claims from folks that take "1000 watts" to mean they can dime all the knobs on their "700 watt" amp and be safe to dig in.....
This got damn long. I'm stopping.
Good on ya coming to TB for feedback; I hope you land on a "win" with this line.
- Mar 13, 2010
- 118
- 319
- 5,126
- Disclosures
- Owner and Chief Engineer: Fuchs Audio Technology LLC
Thanks all, lots of good points made and taken into account. Starting with 210 and working up from there. Prototyping a 410 that I think will be a big hit, and then seeing what field feedback brings. A single 12 or single 10 is certainly possible down the line.
Myself, it's all about sound. I don't care if Neo, Alnico, Ceramic or ??? No preference Celestion vs Eminence (since EV is out of the component driver space). Don't care at all about weight either . . . It's about sound, not being lazy. The only thing that I would demand is that recone parts be readily available at a reasonable price (and if you ever drop them, publish the damn T+S specs!).
Yep. We who prefer lightweight are lazy. 'See what you did there - nice.
Light and sounds like dung == non-starter. Am I clearer now? I put sound first, plain and simple, and if I have to roll a few more lbs around, so be it. That's what wheels are for . . .