Getting that tight low end fundamental note under distortion

[robd]

MBD-1 or VFE Triumvirate - 2 of my faves - lots of dirt and still lots of clean

 

[MDBass]

Hello all,

I'm looking to somehow really tighten up the low end on my bass when using distortion, so that they're thick and strong, but still controlled and defined.

For any who haven't seen this video, this is a perfect example:


Now, Nolly's tone is a little bit treblier than I would have myself (and apologies if its not your thing), but he retains that super strong defined low end fundamental note which sounds absolutely massive but still very controlled.

I realise with mixing this is quite easy to do as you simply split the channel into a distorted one and a clean one, remove the lows from the distorted, remove the highs from the clean, then blend the two together, and because Nolly is (most likely) running an Axe-FX in the video its all doable in there also.

Is there a way to do this in a non-modelling set up? I've got a Darkglass B7k Ultra, but I actually quite strongly dislike the bass knob on it and find it doesn't bring out a low like in the video, I've tried experimenting with a POG2 to add a very subtle octave lower note, to some success, but its not perfect, what about something like hard compressing just the low end? Would that work? Any ideas for any approach would be welcome!

I'm also perhaps wondering if its to do with the multi scale fanned frets (I know its supposed to be extremely good at retaining a tight low string) or just that it could be the 'Dingwall sound'

Any insights appreciated! Thanks guys

The extended scale (and appropriate string gauges) are a huge part of getting that kind of tight and defined bottom end.

Compression is also incredibly useful for this kind of thing, as is the use of an HPF: dialing in more bass, or a sub octave, is going to make the bottom end sound "wider", not "tighter".

Same bass, recorded direct through my pedalboard with no post processing:



I'd look into adding something like the @Dsmnoisemaker OmniCabSim to your signal chain, it makes a huge difference, and a good compressor wouldn't hurt either

 

[F L 0 0 F]

Hello all,

I'm looking to somehow really tighten up the low end on my bass when using distortion, so that they're thick and strong, but still controlled and defined.

For any who haven't seen this video, this is a perfect example:


Now, Nolly's tone is a little bit treblier than I would have myself (and apologies if its not your thing), but he retains that super strong defined low end fundamental note which sounds absolutely massive but still very controlled.

I realise with mixing this is quite easy to do as you simply split the channel into a distorted one and a clean one, remove the lows from the distorted, remove the highs from the clean, then blend the two together, and because Nolly is (most likely) running an Axe-FX in the video its all doable in there also.

Is there a way to do this in a non-modelling set up? I've got a Darkglass B7k Ultra, but I actually quite strongly dislike the bass knob on it and find it doesn't bring out a low like in the video, I've tried experimenting with a POG2 to add a very subtle octave lower note, to some success, but its not perfect, what about something like hard compressing just the low end? Would that work? Any ideas for any approach would be welcome!

I'm also perhaps wondering if its to do with the multi scale fanned frets (I know its supposed to be extremely good at retaining a tight low string) or just that it could be the 'Dingwall sound'

Any insights appreciated! Thanks guys

A lot of this tone is actually the b7k Ultra, the Super Symmetry and his bass/preamp/technique.

Nolly does a lot of stuff in parallel, and the tone shaping is actually quite minor aside from the Ultra. He actually cuts the bass on his on-board (which are lower than whats on the ultra) and boosts his mids, though not very dramatically.
Another thing he does is parallel comp, but the blend is more so towards the wet signal than the dry. It helps add the dynamic flare of how the distortion reacts in the video (you can hear it a bit in the video in the breakdown, the distortion is a little more edgy than when he plays the main riffs). It also helps to just generally beat the poopie out of your instrument enough to make it grunt, but not force it out of tune - He went over that in the URM podcast he was on!
I'd assume that the grunt switch is turned off, because the low A notes/anything Under that B1 sounds slightly less distorted than the rest of what he's playing.

Hope I've helped at all!

 

[LowActionHero]

I think the secret is splitting the signal/clean blend. At least for me, it seems all dirt must be blended with clean - I haven't found a straight dirt I'm fully on board with.

 

[mpdd]

i use my ultra dark voiced vintage L2000 and an overdriven mesa boogie d180 at shows, but the rat tail with a clean blend and the moog mini drive sure are fun with solid state amps at the practice space

 

[gregmon79]

So, thinking just theoretically here, if I had an LS-2 after my overdrive, with one path being split to an EQ which removes everything except low end, and the other path also with an EQ except removing the low end instead, then on the first path having a compressor squashing the sh*t out of it, then blending the two back together, could that work?

With a couple of decent mini-pedals I reckon it could be done without costing too much and without taking up too much space!

IME, adding a good blender can work. And that may very well be the way that works for you. However, I myself have found I much more preferred pedals that handle the full range of your instrument and in todays world of effects, you dont have to look that far to find this. These days many builders cater to us bassists. It's not like it used to be. Have you given any thought to the DG Alpha/Omega? That was a pedal built with this exact type of dirty bass tone you have in mind. I rock one myself and it slays. I have found that I can run regular pedals that have massive, fundamental low end when engaged in the mix. I use the A/O, the damnation MBD1, the newer EHX green russian reissue and the Earthbound audio iron pig v2. Now the MBD1, pig and A/O have clean blends. But they are implemented really well into the pedals so they arent your typical blend. So I guess I do have some blending going on haha but they work so well. And I actually dont use all that much blend on any of them.

 

[five7]

Definitely easier to do with a 4 string than a five. My B string always sounds more distorted than any of the other strings so I end up backing the pedal down. Have thought about a HPF but I also use synth sounds. I would love to see a pedal that lets me dial it back on low notes.

 

[devnulljp]

Distortion wit ha clean blend is what you want. Maybe a compressor on the clean end too.

 

[Nephilymbass]

Hello all,

I'm looking to somehow really tighten up the low end on my bass when using distortion, so that they're thick and strong, but still controlled and defined.

For any who haven't seen this video, this is a perfect example:


Now, Nolly's tone is a little bit treblier than I would have myself (and apologies if its not your thing), but he retains that super strong defined low end fundamental note which sounds absolutely massive but still very controlled.

I realise with mixing this is quite easy to do as you simply split the channel into a distorted one and a clean one, remove the lows from the distorted, remove the highs from the clean, then blend the two together, and because Nolly is (most likely) running an Axe-FX in the video its all doable in there also.

Is there a way to do this in a non-modelling set up? I've got a Darkglass B7k Ultra, but I actually quite strongly dislike the bass knob on it and find it doesn't bring out a low like in the video, I've tried experimenting with a POG2 to add a very subtle octave lower note, to some success, but its not perfect, what about something like hard compressing just the low end? Would that work? Any ideas for any approach would be welcome!

I'm also perhaps wondering if its to do with the multi scale fanned frets (I know its supposed to be extremely good at retaining a tight low string) or just that it could be the 'Dingwall sound'

Any insights appreciated! Thanks guys

I’m a big fan of deep, tight and articulate (not boomy) low end. I think certain gear is better than others for that type of low end. I love my Darkglass pedals but to me they are more about midrange dirt and character. The low end to me is still more in the blend control and the dry sound. I never boost the lows on my DG pedals past say 2 o’clock.

My Avalon u5 (which is what I run my pedals into and basically where my clean tone is coming from) doesn’t hurt. Im guessing being high voltage is why the Avalon is so deep but still very clear sounding.

Nolly does use a very expensive and very good compressor also. A lot of compressors add unwanted color. I dont have the Cali but I’ve heard it’s pretty transparent and able to be super fast. compressors can actually amplify the fundemental down in the lower notes because they tend to try to even out the frequencies and the fundemental frequency is typically lower. But the fundemental has to be there for the compressor to do that. a compressors cant even out frequencies that don’t exist in the signal

As for the bass. Hard to say how much of a role it plays but I’ll be able to let you in a few weeks when it gets here because I bought a 5 string dingwall NG2. The fundemental frequency of the low notes does tend to be a little stronger on longer scale basses from my experience though. And the dingwalls from what I can hear on various videos I’ve watched are very articulate down low. A lot of basses are too boomy or flubby sounding really low, like the midrange is lost on that range. Being a fingerstyle player I actually bought an NG2 more so because of this video. When Andy starts slapping on the low B string and you hear how huge yet still very articulate the sound is.

 

[dindinbre]

I use Digitech XBD, you can get nice gones out of it, and it has a level, tone, blend and "morph" (that changes distortion from nice overdrive to nasty fuzz) knob. I like to have that blend on around 90%, and tone knob on 60%, so i still get clean lows with distorted mids and highs.

 

[RedJag]

Hello all,

I'm looking to somehow really tighten up the low end on my bass when using distortion, so that they're thick and strong, but still controlled and defined.

For any who haven't seen this video, this is a perfect example:


Now, Nolly's tone is a little bit treblier than I would have myself (and apologies if its not your thing), but he retains that super strong defined low end fundamental note which sounds absolutely massive but still very controlled.

I realise with mixing this is quite easy to do as you simply split the channel into a distorted one and a clean one, remove the lows from the distorted, remove the highs from the clean, then blend the two together, and because Nolly is (most likely) running an Axe-FX in the video its all doable in there also.

Is there a way to do this in a non-modelling set up? I've got a Darkglass B7k Ultra, but I actually quite strongly dislike the bass knob on it and find it doesn't bring out a low like in the video, I've tried experimenting with a POG2 to add a very subtle octave lower note, to some success, but its not perfect, what about something like hard compressing just the low end? Would that work? Any ideas for any approach would be welcome!

I'm also perhaps wondering if its to do with the multi scale fanned frets (I know its supposed to be extremely good at retaining a tight low string) or just that it could be the 'Dingwall sound'

Any insights appreciated! Thanks guys

Two amps. That’s how Chris Wolstenholme does it with Muse. Same with Mike Kerr (technically he has like 4 or 5 amps)

 

[Merovign]

Turn down the blend knob, increase your drive, then EQ to taste, maybe cutting some mids before sending the signal to the B7K. Compressing the clean signal first might give you the right ballpark as well.

 

[ObsessiveArcher]

I guess I could get the LS-2, then an EQ pedal filtering out high end, and blend the two back together? the only problems I see with this is I also use my overdrive/distortion as a boost (e.g. turn it on during a chorus or a main riff or whatever) and in doing so the clean low end would be lost a bit more as the volume jumps up because it'd change the blend ratio. Finally, it would also end up being a blend of distorted low end with clean low end rather than completely clean low end that a lot of people go for in mixes that sound so good!

Not attempting to be a nolly fanboy here (he's just a fantastic example) but in this mixing video
()
at just after the time I have set in the video he adds the Renaissance Bass plugin which generates subharmonic content on the low end, massively filling it out, are there any pedals that do this sort of effect? I've heard of the BBE and the Aphex units but heard they're a bit questionable.

^ This
Nolly explains how he gets his tone

 

[superheavyfunk]

in the video he adds the Renaissance Bass plugin which generates subharmonic content on the low end, massively filling it out, are there any pedals that do this sort of effect?

The DOD Meatbox and the Mantic Density Hulk are two that are made specifically for this task. The Aguilar Octamizer has a crazy amount of low end in it as well.

 

[DeadbeatLine]

SO many fantastic replies here guys, I love this community.

I currently have the Darkglass B7K Ultra, same as Nolly uses, but just can't nail that same tone. I find it actually a bit of a harsh pedal all in all, great focus on the mid range (though not quite where I want it) but not very good with low frequencies, I can't seem to get this 'massive low end' so many people seem to claim it to have.

As I've had it less than a week and GAK (here in the UK) have a returns policy, im going to swap it out for the Alpha/Omega and give that a try!

I'm also going to mess a little with compressing AFTER the overdrive just on the off chance it somehow tightens it a little, you never know, might affect it somehow! I currently only have a cheap EHX Bass Preacher that I bought when I was broke so obviously I'm not expecting stellar results, but I'll be interested to hear the difference when I upgrade to a much better Compressor.

Judging by how many of you have reccomended a HPF, I think I might have to experiment with one (or atleast record and experiment with one in a DAW) and see the results

 

[DeadbeatLine]

He isn't running AxeFX in the video at all: it's a blend of the mic'ed cab and the amp DI.

The extended scale (and appropriate string gauges) are a huge part of getting that kind of tight and defined bottom end.

Compression is also incredibly useful for this kind of thing, as is the use of an HPF: dialing in more bass, or a sub octave, is going to make the bottom end sound "wider", not "tighter".

Same bass, recorded direct through my pedalboard with no post processing:



I'd look into adding something like the @Dsmnoisemaker OmniCabSim to your signal chain, it makes a huge difference, and a good compressor wouldn't hurt either

Nice demo! If you had to pick something, which would you say is your most crucial element (or if you had to, as I know it's often a combination, two elements, that help you achieve that tight sound?

 

[DeadbeatLine]

A lot of this tone is actually the b7k Ultra, the Super Symmetry and his bass/preamp/technique.

Nolly does a lot of stuff in parallel, and the tone shaping is actually quite minor aside from the Ultra. He actually cuts the bass on his on-board (which are lower than whats on the ultra) and boosts his mids, though not very dramatically.
Another thing he does is parallel comp, but the blend is more so towards the wet signal than the dry. It helps add the dynamic flare of how the distortion reacts in the video (you can hear it a bit in the video in the breakdown, the distortion is a little more edgy than when he plays the main riffs). It also helps to just generally beat the poopie out of your instrument enough to make it grunt, but not force it out of tune - He went over that in the URM podcast he was on!
I'd assume that the grunt switch is turned off, because the low A notes/anything Under that B1 sounds slightly less distorted than the rest of what he's playing.

Hope I've helped at all!

Do you think the Supersymmetry he's using really contributes that much difference? The Cali76 TX he normally uses to use definitely did, but the Supersymmetry is supposed to be extremely transparent (apparent from a slight high end dip) and very subtle, I'm wondering if it was partially meant as a product demo/favour for Darkglass, because I can't imagine he'd stop using his Cali for it!

 

[Beheroth]

That applies if using the B7k, any advice regarding other pedals?

cut the bass before the distortion and boost em after the distortion. It's the trick used by metal guitarist for decades, that's why the tube screamer and all it's derivatives are so popular.

Tight low end = no sub bass, they just muddy the tone and put excessive stress on the power amp and the speakers.
IMO, cutting everything under 20 Hz is mandatory cause unheard by most people and then adjust the cut off freq from there to taste.

 

[jw23mind]

Correct me if I'm saying something stupid here, but how is that not taking the meat out of your signal? Is anything that low really just mud?

It's only mud if it's overly-clipped. HP filtering doesn't necessarily take the meat out, because those low frequencies can be restored by the gain of the distortion circuit. It just reduces the clipping of lower frequencies.

 

[MDBass]

Nice demo! If you had to pick something, which would you say is your most crucial element (or if you had to, as I know it's often a combination, two elements, that help you achieve that tight sound?

Definitely the compressor and the HPF as far as 'tightness' goes; the AO and BDDI are for depth and drive.

An HPF won't take the guts out of your signal at all unless you run it really high; mine is set around 60Hz for this video.

Compressor before the dirt chain to tighten the low end response, boost the bottom end after the dirt for more depth if needed, HPF at the end to remove sub buildup.