Double Bass ii V i lines

[Don Kasper]

I'm a terrible musician but I'm a music teacher.

Yes. That explains a lot.
You are very arrogant and unpleasant to converse with..but I suppose you've heard that before.
I have zero interest in continuing our conversation.
Please try and be a more thoughtful and respectful participant in your exchanges here.
IMFO, of course.

 

[Lionel Albert]

So further to that, what would you call a chord with the following chord tones: C (root), E, G, Bb, D#?

If I saw the following chord tones, C (root), Fb, Bb, Eb, Ab it would appear to be more of a Cm7 with an diminished 4th & 6th, no? Thanks for your help by the way!

CMajor/EbMajor two chords played at the same time.

C Fb = C E

Jazz doesn't give a damn about enharmonic notes.

 

[Lionel Albert]

Yes. That explains a lot.
You are very arrogant and unpleasant to converse with..but I suppose you've heard that before.
I have zero interest in continuing our conversation.
Please try and be a more thoughtful and respectful participant in your exchanges here.
IMFO, of course.

Why arrogant ? Are basics arrogant ? You don't know them so well so.
Be thankful, it was a free lesson.

 

[N4860]

Why arrogant ? Are basics arrogant ? You don't know them so well so.
Be thankful, it was a free lesson.

Your response sounds pretty arrogant and condescending to be honest. If as a teacher this is how you respond, you're not a great teacher either. I've asked you a few questions for explanations about what you've said and each time you come back with responses that basically attempt to answer the question with the least amount of actual information.

How about trying to actually explain your thoughts instead of just saying 'that's the basics'

 

[Lionel Albert]

CMajor/EbMajor two chords played at the same time.

C Fb = C E

Jazz doesn't give a damn about enharmonic notes.

Your response sounds pretty arrogant and condescending to be honest. If as a teacher this is how you respond, you're not a great teacher either. I've asked you a few questions for explanations about what you've said and each time you come back with responses that basically attempt to answer the question with the least amount of actual information.

How about trying to actually explain your thoughts instead of just saying 'that's the basics'

Really ? I didn't answer ?

 

[N4860]

Really ? I didn't answer ?

When I asked why a C7+9 isn't just a C7 chord with an augmented 9 you said "that's just the basics to know" without any further explanation or reasoning. I'm still confused why a chord labeled as C7+9 would have a flat 3rd and flat 4th as you described.

 

[Lionel Albert]

When I asked why a C7+9 isn't just a C7 chord with an augmented 9 you said "that's just the basics to know" without any further explanation or reasoning. I'm still confused why a chord labeled as C7+9 would have a flat 3rd and flat 4th as you described.

Visualize a keyboard and see where is the Fb key, you will understand.

Play the voicing Bb Eb E G# or E G# Bb Eb add the bass C.
You will get C7+9 then with the same voicing with the bass F# you will get F#13

Once you know that, you'll never be lost.

Those things are the basic voicings for dominant.

C Eb E G Bb sounds like C against Eb chords (C E G + Eb G Bb), leave the fifth or augment it you will get a really dominant chord.

I'm not arrogant, I'm a nice guy.

 

[Lee Moses]

Not to jump into this fray, but I might warn innocent passers-by to beware of misinformation in this thread.

 

[N4860]

Not to jump into this fray, but I might warn innocent passers-by to beware of misinformation in this thread.

Can you please share what particular misinformation? I'm trying to grasp some of this info and am struggling so if you can enlighten me about what to avoid, that would be awesome.

 

[KenD]

This conversation puts me in mind of an interview with Pat Martino that I read some years before his passing. He was asked to describe something he had played or recorded (can't remember) which he was doing. But he stopped part way through and said (paraphrasing) "That's how I describe what I played but it's not what I was thinking when I was playing it."

 

[Lionel Albert]

For @Don Kasper who has never known what it was about.
I hope he'll trust him.

Sorry, it's longer than a TikTok video.

 

[Lionel Albert]

Pfff three pages to explain a very common thing that everyone should know before talking.
And they say I'm arrogant what should I say about those who make fun of me ?

 

[crd]

Can you please share what particular misinformation? I'm trying to grasp some of this info and am struggling so if you can enlighten me about what to avoid, that would be awesome.

Thinking about music like this is useless. It's gibberish. Context is everything. Talking about how to play a chord out of the context of a melody and chord progression is not going to get you anywhere.

Check out Barry Harris' DVDs for a way to start to approach functional harmony. Especially if you want to apply it on an instrument.

 

[Lionel Albert]

For @Don Kasper who has never known what it was about.
I hope he'll trust him.

Sorry, it's longer than a TikTok video.

Why do I blame you @Don Kasper ? I made a confusion with someone else.
Oh yes ! It was about b13 #12 I didn't get you were smiling in your words.
Sorry for that !
If I were a good musician I wouldn't be talking here but for sure some would be talking about what I play.
When I say "terrible musician" I say it with a lot of honesty.
Don't think I'm arrogant...

 

[Lionel Albert]

E7+9 doesn’t stipulate altered, although it is a valid option.


Surely it depends on context? The altered scale should sound “inside” an “musical” if the melody and chord imply that sound.

I don’t think the perfect fifth is always the better solution, but it is a strong sound, no doubt.


All the lines are ok, it would just depend on the context. On some of the lines you hit a non-root chord tone on the 1- cool. Why not try and do that also on the Am chord?

Can you also make the +5 sound good, too?



It’s a good exercise to write out lines like this, but have you also transcribed some basslines? For this sort of thing I’d be looking to transcribe some Ron Carter with the Miles Davis Quintet while they were still playing standards. Lots of minor ii V i progressions in that tune!

Ron Carter


Sam Jones


Ron Carter ?


Why did I talk about the perfect fifth on the bass on an altered chord ?

 

[Lionel Albert]

Another video from Michael Keithson...

 

[Lionel Albert]

A really interesting thing, a chord doesn't mean a mode (melody or bass line).

I'm sorry if I'm repeating myself even if quite everyone knows what I mean..

 

[Lionel Albert]

It's a shame I had to look for videos to make you understand what I meant about quartal dominants.

C7alt = C Fb Bb Eb Ab Db
C7+4 = C F# Bb E A D

Thanks God ! Someone is thinking like me !
I'm not alone !

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Thinking about music like this is useless. It's gibberish. Context is everything. Talking about how to play a chord out of the context of a melody and chord progression is not going to get you anywhere.

I completely agree. It’s like trying to predetermine the meaning of individual words out of the context of the sentences in which they are eventually used. The meaning of the words is shaped by their context. There is a good reason we don’t look to poets to edit dictionary definitions, or expect great poetry from dictionary editors.

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Also, as a site moderator, I would like to remind everyone to please keep the conversation respectful and avoid personal attacks. It’s fine to express an opinion, and it’s fine to disagree, as long as it is done respectfully. It’s also fine to simply “vote with your feet” if you feel a particular theory thread has jumped the shark in terms of the information being put forward. If you choose this option, please don’t feel the need to slam the door on your way out.