Double Bass Let’s Compare a Cheap Chinese Bow to a Fine European Bow

#41
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Received a Yinfente snakewood bass bow today. It is heavier than my other bows. $80 with free shipping. They call it 3/4 but it is very close to the length of my other bows. Plays alright but feels a bit tip heavy compared to my best bow.

If I were to only have one Chinese bow I would keep the szmusic pernambuco one, the one pictured in the start of this thread. That bow is amazingly close to the quality of my Schicker.

This snakewood bow may work well on pieces that have me playing a lot of Eb to low C notes. At 140 grams it is the heaviest bow I own. Maybe I will grow to like it, or maybe I’ll get a luthier to remove some wood from it’s head. We’ll see.

So I now have 5 bass bows to choose from. Not sure how that happened.

I also got a good surprise with the violin bow I ordered. Black carbon, and feels very nice. They call it ‘pernambuco quality’. It was $28. This bow is for a violin that I’ve owned for 25 years but has been in my family a 100. Felt like giving it some love lately, and had a luthier give the violin a spa treatment. He also rehaired and cambered it’s old pernambuco bow. Now this violin has a good carbon bow too.
 
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#42
I have known a number of fiddlers at Disneyland through the years, and at least to my memory, all of them use fairly inexpensive CF bows. I've heard very good comments about them from these professionals. Among the most memorable of the comments are, "they are great for outdoor all-weather situations", and, "who would want to use their best bows day after day outside?", and, "they preform so well I often use them for other gigs".
 
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#43
I paid a bit more, $130 for one that said "balanced" in the description. Mine is very heavy but balanced. It is now my main practice bow - when I need to play fast at a gig I pick up the carbon fiber I got and it just flies!
I am finding I can get a nice ppp with a good fundamental with the heavy bow. The low end and volume in general is great, I am finding it can actually be too loud in some settings.

CaseyVancouver said:
View attachment 3360215 View attachment 3360223 View attachment 3360224 Received a Yinfente snakewood bass bow today. It is heavier than my other bows. $80 with free shipping. They call it 3/4 but it is very close to the length of my other bows. Plays alright but feels a bit tip heavy compared to my best bow.

If I were to only have one Chinese bow I would keep the szmusic pernambuco one, the one pictured in the start of this thread. That bow is amazingly close to the quality of my Schicker.

This snakewood bow may work well on pieces that have me playing a lot of Eb to low C notes. At 140 grams it is the heaviest bow I own. Maybe I will grow to like it, or maybe I’ll get a luthier to remove some wood from it’s head. We’ll see.

So I now have 5 bass bows to choose from. Not sure how that happened.

I also got a good surprise with the violin bow I ordered. Black carbon, and feels very nice. They call it ‘pernambuco quality’. It was $28. This bow is for a violin that I’ve owned for 25 years but has been in my family a 100. Felt like giving it some love lately, and had a luthier give the violin a spa treatment. He also rehaired and cambered it’s old pernambuco bow. Now this violin has a good carbon bow too.
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#44
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damonsmith said:
I paid a bit more, $130 for one that said "balanced" in the description. Mine is very heavy but balanced. It is now my main practice bow - when I need to play fast at a gig I pick up the carbon fiber I got and it just flies!
I am finding I can get a nice ppp with a good fundamental with the heavy bow. The low end and volume in general is great, I am finding it can actually be too loud in some settings.
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My snakewood said ‘balanced’ in the description as well. It is tip heavy and not balanced. I am not used to it.

While working through the Quarrington Fifths Tuning Exercises method there are a lot of whole low notes, 40 cadence and bowed 1.5 - 2” from the bridge. This snakewood bow is a good choice that kind of practise.

I also found that playing in a lot of low ‘C’ territory, then going to a lighter bow for higher playing, the lighter bow is very fast. With a few bows to choose from, I can get an ‘alternative bow option’ on differing passages.

These bows do not cost a lot. Three bows, a carbon, pernambuco and snakewood, will cost about what I paid for two quality bow rehairs from a top bow maker (with insured shipping each way).

I suggest curious buyers order 2 or 3 bow types.
 
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#46
I bought two different "master" level pernambuco Vingos. One is great, though there is less hair than I would have preferred...but that's easily remedied! Plays and feels better than anything I've ever played (which is not much) and is now my main bow.

The other is just OK. Feels a touch heavy, and the frog is loose (though to his credit, the seller gave me a discount when I let him know about this). Needs a tune up to come alive I think (hope)...

When I got my cheap no name brazilwood re-haired last fall, the bow maker made some minor (cheap but frankly invisible!) adjustments which really made a difference in how it played. I look forward to him doing the same to these two bows.

Both together were less than 250$...
 
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#48
noelpaz said:
@CaseyVancouver @damonsmith ... Which seller would you recommend for a snakewood French bow? Thanks
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The same products are sold through a number of eBay sellers, the photos are often the same. I got my snakewood Yinfente from music-1982 and pernambuco from szmusic. Happy with both and actually have a Yinfente carbon bow coming to finish my collection.

If I were to order a snakewood again I would make a big deal about making sure it is not tip heavy and is lighter. Some do custom orders. When my snakewood arrived it included the Yinfente bow shop foreman’s card, and if anything was wrong to contact him directly. Which I did, and ordered the carbon one from him. (there was a separate bow frog that got crushed in shipping)

I doubt the sellers have a clue what a lively, balanced light bass bow even is. I doubt any of them play bass or perhaps any instrument. When I say the bow is tip heavy they don’t know what I’m talking about. The bow shop foreman will know but not these eBay sellers. Imho.

In the USA when you call a bass shop the staff will be knowledgeable. With the Chinese eBay sellers you take a chance on what you end up with. But you may end up with a very nice bow that cost you only a $100.

I love that pernambuco bow from szmusic. It was the cheapest pernambuco bass bow on eBay at $65 including shipping.

music-1982 | eBay Stores
szmusic | eBay Stores
 
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#50
FWIW, six or seven years ago, I rolled the dice and bought a German octagonal pernambuco bow from the eBay seller below. Collected about six sticks from other Chinese shops after that and eventually sold them off, but this first one has proven to be the one Chinese bow that I refuse to part with. I paid $100, but it plays worth 10-15 times that amount. YMMV, of course.

MAX6699 | eBay Stores
 
#51
I hate to put a dampener on all this mutual congratulation, but you guys really ought to think about what you're buying and why it is that US and European bow makers can't make you a bow for $65. Pernambuco is covered by CITES, and for that reason, among others, is VERY expensive if bought through legal channels, properly licensed etc. So.... two possibilities. Either you're buying something else entirely that someone is claiming as Pernamuco, or you're buying, and therefore encouraging, contraband. Pernambuco is endangered. CITES exists for a reason. I don't believe you can make a bow from properly licensed, legitimate Pernambuco for $65 - or even $165.
 
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#52
Neil Pye said:
Play what you want, enjoy, but allow the rest of us the same courtesy.
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Your quote above.

As I said in the first post, an average quality Brazilian pernambuco wood blank is $250. The Chinese sellers don’t say they use Brazilian pernambuco. My conclusion is the Chinese use a Chinese pernambuco wood. Makes for a great bow side by side with a Brazilian pernambuco bow.

Nobody here is looking to buy anything illegal.
 
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#56
Andy Mopley said:
What is the difference between the 1/2 size and the 4/4 size, does it come down to individual preference? I am tempted to try the CF version..

US $98.0 |Aliexpress.com : Buy FREE SHIPPING 1/2 Size 100BGB Black Carbon Fiber German BASS BOW Good Quality Ebony Frog Nice Black Hair Bass Bass Accessories from Reliable violin accessory suppliers on VingoBow
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That one is 66cm without the screw.

My 4 German bows are 69/70 without the screw. I assume they are the standard size. French are a bit shorter.

Gary Karr says most bass bows are too long and he does not know why bow makers make them as long as they do. Makes me want to try a shorter bow.
 
#57
Aldwyn said:
I bought a couple of these bows based on the original thread. I also found that the snakewood was very heavy, and unbalanced.

The CF bow is fantastic, though, and has now become my #1 over a Brazilwood bow I had been using. Light, balanced, feels and sounds great.
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Was it this one?

US $98.0 |Aliexpress.com : Buy FREE SHIPPING 1/2 Size 100BGB Black Carbon Fiber German BASS BOW Good Quality Ebony Frog Nice Black Hair Bass Bass Accessories from Reliable violin accessory suppliers on VingoBow
 
#58
Ok....I'll bite. Looked up Vingobow on eBay and the listing reads, "VingoBow French Double Bass Bow Black Horsehair Brazilwood 72.5cm 4/4 Wild Tone".

I bought it. Can't wait to achieve "wild tone"... or wilder tone...um or something... Oh ya: $59.40
 
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#59
Andy Mopley said:
Was it this one?

US $98.0 |Aliexpress.com : Buy FREE SHIPPING 1/2 Size 100BGB Black Carbon Fiber German BASS BOW Good Quality Ebony Frog Nice Black Hair Bass Bass Accessories from Reliable violin accessory suppliers on VingoBow
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More or less... mine is the French 4/4 version of this bow.

CayGee said:
Ok....I'll bite. Looked up Vingobow on eBay and the listing reads, "VingoBow French Double Bass Bow Black Horsehair Brazilwood 72.5cm 4/4 Wild Tone".

I bought it. Can't wait to achieve "wild tone"... or wilder tone...um or something... Oh ya: $59.40
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That's the CF I was referring to. You got yours for a better price then I did... I paid $98 for it on Amazon. All of the ebay sellers at the time said "shop closed until March" or something like that.

I am not sure about "wild tone". Though perhaps if I had enough to drink, I would make the tone more wild?
 
#60
So, based on this intriguing discussion, I went and pulled the trigger on a german bow from szmusic, like OP did. I'm new to arco, so I don't know what I could really contribute to the discussion because I'm certain that my skills and not my bow will be what limits me. Someday, I hope to discover what it is about the character and warmth of wood that makes people love their bows.

Today is not that day, but I'll comment on whether there are any frank defects. I figure at the <$70 price point it's cheaper than a standard fiberglass and will definitely be interesting.

FWIW, even though these are listed as pernambuco, I totally agree with what OP said - there is no way a seller is going to get a $250 true pernambuco blank and sell it to you at 1/4 price after turning it into a bow. So this is not *that* pernambuco, and what do I care at this price point that it is not, if it is skillfully made? And even more food for thought... brazilwood is from the same tree as the pernambuco, it's just not the heartwood portion, so... ? (And no, no, neither am I advocating illegal purchases, I just don't think that applies to this thread at all).
 
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