Quad Cortex - Neural DSP

[xush]

Considering replacing my little fly board with a QC and have a couple quick questions if our trusted community would oblige:

1) Forget MY preferences...will my FOH engineers (pros) be happy with this replacing my J48?

2) It seems like it would be relatively straightforward with the impressive I/O routing options, but this should replace my IEM amp, right? I currently use the Behringer Powerplay P1 on my board and a handful of times have sent the 2nd out of my HX Stomp to the other channel to get a bit more "unprocessed" bass at my fingertips/in my ears. It seems like I should be able to plug the IEM feed into input 2 and route it to the headphone out. Should theoretically be able to dial in some pre-desk "more me in the monitor" signal as well, right?

3) I'm just beginning my research journey into the capabilities of IR capture. It seems like it's primarily being used for amps, cabs, and drive effects. Can it also be used effectively to capture things like some of my favorite out-of-the-way envelope filters, etc.?

1. FOH should be familiar w/ the QC by now, they are getting quite popular on the touring scene. Most pros are used to dealing w/ them (just another XLR out, pretty much)
2. You could do that, yes. The routing is very flexible and versatile.
3. The capture process only works for gain/tone-based effects. No time- or pitch-based fx; so no compressors, filters, delays, reverbs, etc. (it could capture the 'tone' of a compressor or delay unit, but not the 'effect')

 

[xush]

Just a quick question for those with a QC.
How many captures can be run at the same time in your chain?

depends on what else is going on in the Lanes. I just made a preset of only captures, it fit 14 before the DSP/CPU ran out.
Based on my calculations, each capture uses 6% of the available DSP. You can't use 100%, you need headroom- but you can get close. 14 caps = 81%DSP.

How many do you estimate you would run max, in a typical preset?

 

[Fourstrfury]

depends on what else is going on in the Lanes. I just made a preset of only captures, it fit 14 before the DSP/CPU ran out.
Based on my calculations, each capture uses 6% of the available DSP. You can't use 100%, you need headroom- but you can get close. 14 caps = 81%DSP.

How many do you estimate you would run max, in a typical preset?

No idea. I'd want to probably run an amp and cab along with a few capture of some dirt. Sounds like there is more than enough "room" for my needs.

 

[xush]

No idea. I'd want to probably run an amp and cab along with a few capture of some dirt. Sounds like there is more than enough "room" for my needs.

Should be, yeah. The only time I've hit the limit is when using DSP-hungry amp Models (there are a few) or complex fx. Captures tend to use less DSP than the amp models in general, so they can save you some space.

 

[Don Box]

2) It seems like it would be relatively straightforward with the impressive I/O routing options, but this should replace my IEM amp, right? I currently use the Behringer Powerplay P1 on my board and a handful of times have sent the 2nd out of my HX Stomp to the other channel to get a bit more "unprocessed" bass at my fingertips/in my ears. It seems like I should be able to plug the IEM feed into input 2 and route it to the headphone out. Should theoretically be able to dial in some pre-desk "more me in the monitor" signal as well, right?

The difference between theory and practice is that in theory there is no difference; in practice there is.

The routing options are in fact really flexible - even moreso if you are in a position to take advantage of the 8 USB audio inputs and outputs.

That stated, the routing is stored with each individual preset, so keeping the routing config consistent across presets is a manual process.

This is somewhat simpler if you use Scenes, but it definitely requires attention to make it work.

But yes, if you get a mono or stereo mix, you can route it into whichever outputs you like.

But I remain curious to see if others have had success here - I'm still a bit of a n00b.

3) I'm just beginning my research journey into the capabilities of IR capture. It seems like it's primarily being used for amps, cabs, and drive effects. Can it also be used effectively to capture things like some of my favorite out-of-the-way envelope filters, etc.?

IR and Neural captures are different.

IR captures are fairly standardized and most systems have an "IR Loader" that loads up an IR file and applies it to the audio signal,

You can buy IR files from a variety of sources and load them into a variety of places. You can buy IR captures of all of the modern Bergantino cabs from Celestion and use them wherever you like. I believe the gen2 versions of the Aguilar heads now allow you to use external IRs. Quad Cortex has an IR Loader virtual device. I also use them from time to time in Ableton Live.

Neural captures are a different animal. Neural DSP has their system and format. As does Kemper. As do other vendors. Neural captures capture frequency response, gain/drive characteristics, and yes, when you capture with a mic, some amount of room/mic acoustic characteristics.

As far as I know, the only way to distribute Neural captures to others is via Cortex Cloud, and there is no revenue model - that is, everything is free.

All of this said, neither of these technologies help with envelope filters, compressors, phasers/flangers/choruses, pitch shifting. or delay.

For this, you get what's in the box, and hope that what you want appears in some future software update.

For my needs, I'm completely happy with what's in the box + a few neural captures of my Woods.

YMMV.

 

[davio]

I guess my biggest worry is not liking the effects that come in the box. I've had the same issues with multieffects like the old M9 and my current HX Stomp. I've gone back and forth between those kinds of units and individual pedals but frequently end up taking the hit on certain subpar sounds for the sake of simplicity and compact portability for live performance. Guess I'll be going back down the YouTube rabbit hole.

 

[gregmon79]

I guess my biggest worry is not liking the effects that come in the box. I've had the same issues with multieffects like the old M9 and my current HX Stomp. I've gone back and forth between those kinds of units and individual pedals but frequently end up taking the hit on certain subpar sounds for the sake of simplicity and compact portability for live performance. Guess I'll be going back down the YouTube rabbit hole.

Depends on which effects you're referring to. Sounds like you're picky with certain ones. And rightly so. I am as well. Dirt for instance. Even though there are some good ones on in the helix and great ones in the QC (even more when you add all the captures you can download to it that others have added to the cloud) I still have 3 dirt pedals I use outside of the QC. I still have a dist and a fuzz dialed in on my QC, but I rarely use them. But really, if I HAD to or really wanted to, I'd be able to get by with the dirt sounds in the QC between what's offered on it and the Neural cloud. There are a TON on the cloud. Not all will sound great with any given setup. But there is a lot to choose from that will. And it grows daily.

As far as any other effect, mod, delays, octaves (I still think they are sorely lacking a really good OC2 style octave. The recent plug in one in the Gojira is good. But not even close IMO), stuff in those realms, I think I could easily get by with what's offered stock even if I still think they need to add a few more things to my liking. Overall though, again, if I HAD to, I'd be able to just use the QC and more than likely be just as happy. Just never had to make that clear cut decision before. And while I still love the helix stuff too, I'd pick the QC due to routing, I/O's, sonics and overall size for what's offered in said package.

Oh, and a synth. It really needs a good synth. Hoping the Rabea plugin capability when it comes will remedy that.

 

[davio]

Depends on which effects you're referring to. Sounds like you're picky with certain ones.

As far as any other effect, mod, delays, octaves (I still think they are sorely lacking a really good OC2 style octave. The recent plug in one in the Gojira is good. But not even close IMO), stuff in those realms, I think I could easily get by with what's offered stock even if I still think they need to add a few more things to my liking. Overall though, again, if I HAD to, I'd be able to just use the QC and more than likely be just as happy. Just never had to make that clear cut decision before. And while I still love the helix stuff too, I'd pick the QC due to routing, I/O's, sonics and overall size for what's offered in said package.

Yeah, I only rarely use any kind of dirt (although I am, as most of us are, on the neverending quest for those possibly unobtainable sounds in my head). But it's funny you mention an OC2-style octave, because that's one I had in mind. LOVE my POG2 but it just doesn't slam the same way. The other category that's frequently problematic for me with multieffects is envelope filters. I do a lot of GB/wedding/dance band stuff and, while I love the Moog they list, I've never been a Meatball fan and neither really get me where I want/need to be. I barely get in the ballpark with my HX Stomp but it's close enough to justify the smaller board.

 

[xush]

I guess my biggest worry is not liking the effects that come in the box. I've had the same issues with multieffects like the old M9 and my current HX Stomp. I've gone back and forth between those kinds of units and individual pedals but frequently end up taking the hit on certain subpar sounds for the sake of simplicity and compact portability for live performance. Guess I'll be going back down the YouTube rabbit hole.

Youtube vids might help in general, but I find a vast difference in what I'm able to dial in and what I hear on the web. The onboard fx are somewhat basic, though we are starting to get more complex ones via updates. In the meantime you can combine fx blocks to cobble together some more complex fx styles. Many people keep an H9 or H90 on their board for the more esoteric algorithms. Anyway, I don't know if Youtube vids alone would go in depth enough to really make a decision from (some people love the fx, some wish they were more "Strymon-quality"), you'll probably want to hang on to your gear while you test drive a QC and then see what you could retire.

 

[gregmon79]

Yeah, I only rarely use any kind of dirt (although I am, as most of us are, on the neverending quest for those possibly unobtainable sounds in my head). But it's funny you mention an OC2-style octave, because that's one I had in mind. LOVE my POG2 but it just doesn't slam the same way. The other category that's frequently problematic for me with multieffects is envelope filters. I do a lot of GB/wedding/dance band stuff and, while I love the Moog they list, I've never been a Meatball fan and neither really get me where I want/need to be. I barely get in the ballpark with my HX Stomp but it's close enough to justify the smaller board.

The QC does do a decent approximation of a say a micro POG. It's not bad. But I still keep a Pitchfork on my board, so, yeah. The QC octave game needs work IMO. It's tough to beat the actual POG or the OC2 regardless of who trying. They have some def mojo to them.

I'm no filter guru or even a big user of them, but I dig the Moog filter on the QC. It does the trick for me and is the one I use if I do.

I do believe the QC will get there one of these days soon with these plugins getting added over time. They all seem to have some of the effects we're referring to so I imagine some will come in an update or you can buy the plugin. I would hope if they get the synth going that they'll add an OC2 style octave better than the Gojira one. I will say though, if I add say a filter, chorus, octave and fuzz, I can get a pretty damn good synthy sound. I know that's not what you're asking about, but it's some food for thought. There's more than one way to skin a cat. RJ Tranquillo (I think that's his name) showed how to make a pretty good chous on his channel by running two of the same effect in split paths, one 2 semitones up the other 2 semitones down. I think it was the pitchshifter. Can't remember atm. Made a great sounding chorus. Just some tricks like that that may be able to get you where you're wanting to go if the actual effect you wanted was in there.

 

[Don Box]

But it's funny you mention an OC2-style octave, because that's one I had in mind. LOVE my POG2 but it just doesn't slam the same way. The other category that's frequently problematic for me with multieffects is envelope filters. I do a lot of GB/wedding/dance band stuff and, while I love the Moog they list, I've never been a Meatball fan and neither really get me where I want/need to be.

The current QC octaver is OK but yes, not as good as I remember my OC2 being.

Last month NDSP announced that the 3.1.0 update will contain both an OC2 and Meatball.

Quad Cortex Development Update #52

neuraldsp.com

The page is silent as to when it will be released, other than "soon."

 

[Fourstrfury]

Thank you for all the responses in my last question. I have been thinking of purchasing a quad for a while and have a few questions before I pull the trigger.

If I have an Amp Capture loaded, do I have the option to tweak it like I would with a regular amp? IE. Bass,Mids,Treble,Gain?

Thank you

 

[gregmon79]

Thank you for all the responses in my last question. I have been thinking of purchasing a quad for a while and have a few questions before I pull the trigger.

If I have an Amp Capture loaded, do I have the option to tweak it like I would with a regular amp? IE. Bass,Mids,Treble,Gain?

Thank you

You only get the basics like volume, gain, bass, mid and treble. So that's somewhat limiting. But it captures the amp and the settings you had them set to when you captured it.

 

[Fourstrfury]

You only get the basics like volume, gain, bass, mid and treble. So that's somewhat limiting. But it captures the amp and the settings you had them set to when you captured it.

Thank you
So if I grabbed someone else's capture online and felt it to be, say too bright, I could cut some treble, but would not have as much control over it as I would if I had the actual amp in front of me.

 

[MascisMan]

Thank you
So if I grabbed someone else's capture online and felt it to be, say too bright, I could cut some treble, but would not have as much control over it as I would if I had the actual amp in front of me.

Yes. Also you can take an amp capture block and place an EQ block between it and the IR/Cab and have a much more flexibility

 

[xush]

Yes. Also you can take an amp capture block and place an EQ block between it and the IR/Cab and have a much more flexibility

as much control over it as I would if I had the actual amp in front of me.

Since the capture setting controls won't respond like the real amp anyway (it's a static snapshot of one setting), an additional EQ block will be way more versatile if you need to tweak the tone, Like MascisMan says

 

[Don Box]

Thank you for all the responses in my last question. I have been thinking of purchasing a quad for a while and have a few questions before I pull the trigger.

If I have an Amp Capture loaded, do I have the option to tweak it like I would with a regular amp? IE. Bass,Mids,Treble,Gain?

Thank you

TL;DR: Neural captures have get generic gain/b/m/t/vol that aren't related to the captured amp's tone controls. I usually just stick a parametric EQ block into the preset to get tone shaping that is more faithful to the underlying amp .

---

When you do a neural capture, whatever you had your amp's tone and drive control settings at is what you get.

When you put a neural capture into a preset, it has five basic controls (gain, bass, mid, treble, volume). However, the tone controls are generic and not tied to the frequency curves of your amp's tone controls.

For that reason, it's common to see multiple captures of the same amp with different tone settings. For example, there re five or more SVT captures in the default factory image that were captured with different settings.

Practically speaking, selecting which capture to use to get a little more brightness isn't practical, especially in a live setting. I've wound up just putting the 8 band parametric EQ block into each preset and use as little EQ as I can get away with (mainly to address room issues or to deal with my finicky upright bass)

NDSP built a robotic capture system called TINA to capture the control permutations on an amp to build a fully modeled amp. It's pretty impressive, but they curate what amps get TINA-ed.

Neural DSP Technologies Introduces TINA - Robotics Meets Machine Learning

TINA makes Quad Cortex plugin compatibility a reality, marking a groundbreaking leap in the symbiosis between amp modeling hardware and software.

neuraldsp.com

 

[RGerhart]

have you tried capturing from the DI? In many cases the QC will ignore the noise and still capture the gain structure just fine. I've been surprised by a few buzzing/hissing devices that cleaned up really well in the capture process

I'll give it a try!

 

[Mytola]

Thanks for all the advice here, everyone! I pulled the trigger and expect to have the QC with me before the weekend. Really excited!

 

[Fourstrfury]

Thanks for all the advice here, everyone! I pulled the trigger and expect to have the QC with me before the weekend. Really excited!

Funny, I did also. Good Luck. Can't wait to get it.

Hope I get a good candy bag with mine!