TI Flats vs the world...

I used to use TI's exclusively, but now am more of a fan of GHS Pressure wounds. TI's are expensive, but you get what you pay for.
I'd be really interested to hear your tone comparisson of pressurewounds and TIs as nobody really has, but some of the descriptors people use are similar. I've got PW on my Ric and Cobalt Flats on my P right now.
You lost me at multiple sets of flats in only two years.
Haha, I had the same set on my Ric the whole time. That set of Dunlops Flats was great, but the E string went dead on my P-bass super early, threw another set on and the G string was brittle and tinny, changed it out from another set and the D-string broke at the bridge (not the strings fault), but the new D felt unbalanced to the older strings, so I changed the whole set, and the E string just went dead again, so I rushed to the store, bought some cobalt flats and threw those on. They were too bright the 1st gig, then the 2nd they weren't bright enough. They sound great at church, but miserable at the bar playing punk rock. I know it's weird, but the Dunlop Flats actually sounded amazing for punk, but now I've been testing a new string each week on my Ric.
+1 here

I liked the TI, but the Low Tension Flats are less "floppier" and have the big La Bella sound. My favorite strings, ever!
The LaBella LTFs come up a lot. I hated the 760FS or whatever it was, the material never felt right in my hands and sustain was not as good as the Dunlops when I needed it.
I've played TI flats off and on for years and never found that I had to adjust either my action or playing style when using them compared to other strings I have played recently, including the pressurewounds you mentioned. But, YMMV; if you pluck hard you may not like them.

What is it about the pressurewounds that you don't like? They'll definitely give you more grit and growl than the TI's. Tension between the two will be roughly the same.
I don't know that I don't now, played them for a show last night, and they sounded goood. I think some of it is mental because I've been a flat guy for close to 10 years. My last set prior to the Dunlop Flats was on my J-bass the entire time. I don't even know what they were, but I sold the J and had to find new strings for the Ric that replaced it and fell in love with the Dunlops on it, that I tossed them on the P as well, but from above had a miserable QC issue (might be me, I'm man enough to say I change strings so rarely with flats, I could of screwed every single thing up myself). But I've lost confidence in the string because of it (and they are hard to buy). So I'm on the search.
 
I adopted TIs as I was focused on changing my approach from
"aggressive" -which really meant being lazy and not thinking how hard/soft I was playing
to "pluck lightly and let the amp do the work" which benefited my sound

Once I lightened my touch and allowed myself to have dynamic control
I was able to get "smooth and silky" or "thumpy" or "gritty and aggressive" sounds out of them
by varying my plucking strength / location

TLDR: TI Jazz flats respond extremely well to a thoughtfully controlled technique
Man that sounds so good. I'm a very expressive player. I love a light touch with some delay and reverb to fill a room, then drive in on some OD before loosening to some filtered funk. Literally one of our original songs is all about it.
 
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EDIT: I initially listed incorrect tensions for the TI Jazz Flats, thinking they were in the same neighborhood as the GHS Precision Flats sets I listed, when they are in fact significantly lower in tension.

TI Jazz flats are actually not all that low tension. On a 34" scale (per Thomastik - scroll down for the Jazz Flats):
  • 28.2 pounds for C
  • 44.97 pounds for G
  • 50.71 pounds for D
  • 44.5 pounds for A
  • 39.46 pounds for E
  • 34.17 pounds for B
For a 4-string, E to G set, that's 179.64 pounds.
[^^^incorrect info -- see a few posts below]

Correct tension for the TI Jazz Flats (34" scale):
  • C - 38.13 pounds
  • G - 37.03 pounds
  • D - 37.47 pounds
  • A - 31.30 pounds
  • E - 34.39 pounds
  • B - 34.83 pounds

A "Custom Medium" set of GHS Precision Flats (45, 60, 80, 105) is, per GHS, 41.5, 46.5, 44.9, and 41.2 pounds for G, D, A, and E, respectively.

A four-string "Medium" set of Precision Flats (45, 65, 85, 105) is 184.6 pounds total (D and A jump up to ~51 pounds tension).

You can look up the tensions for other sets and/or brands, if you wish.

I've used the Precision Flats on three basses (a six string fretted and a five string fretless, neither of which I have anymore, and a four-string Squier P/J I souped-up for a friend) and have the TI Flats on two basses (a five string fretless and a four string Brubaker Brute). On the fretless five, the TIs actually feel pretty taut -- not floppy at all -- and that bass has pretty low action. On the Brute (where they've been for years), they feel good, but a little more flexible/supple. I also have the action a little higher on that bass. I play everything from Motown to Lou Reed to fingerpicked chords to slapping (which they do pretty well, but not fantastically) on that bass with the TIs and have gotten lots of compliments on the tone. They're a great match for that bass. Likewise, on the fretless, nice feel and pitch definition, including on the B, with some growl.

I tried the TIs on another fretless (that I don't have anymore) and on that bass they felt like noodles*. It was a stark difference. I've tried them on at least one other bass (forget which) with similar results.

For the GHS Flats, I used the "Custom Medium" gauges (though I'm pretty sure that I had to put the set together from individual strings at the time) because they're more balanced in tension between the middle and the outer strings than the regular "Medium" set. Those strings did indeed feel noticeably stiffer than the TIs.

As has been often said in string threads, there is a difference between stiffness (or its converse, flexibility) and tension. The TI Jazz Flats are definitely more flexible strings than the GHS Precision Flats.

So why do the TIs feel so different on different basses? I'm not sure. I suspect that it has to do with the stiffness of the wood and the construction of each bass, but I am sure that there are influencing factors of which I'm unaware. I do know that I wouldn't put them on a bass that felt a little "loose" to begin with.

The GHS flats, on the other hand, were just the ticket for tightening up the feel (and beefing up the tone) of a six string that felt a hair on the "loose" side with rounds (though it did better when I put a balanced-tension set of Kallium rounds on there). The sixer with the flats still had some bite but was more supportive in a band mix (better able to drive and give the band a kick in the butt) than it was before. I also liked them on the fretless, where I was never 100% happy with the B-string on that bass with various tapewounds. (On the current fretless, I think they'd be too much/too stiff.) On the Squier P/J, they were the only flats I tried, but they worked really well off the bat so I kept them on.

In general, I'd say that the GHS flats have more thump than the TIs (but not as much as some) and better mids than a lot of flats. I recall them still having good definition in the mix. On the same bass, you could likely get away with a lower setup with the GHS Flats than with the TIs.

The TIs are more supple than most flats (moreso than some rounds) and encourage some subtlety of touch and finger/pick placement. They might benefit from a slightly higher action/different setup on some basses. For me, they haven't had much of a deep thump, but they do have a little more meat to the note and a little more kick at the start than most rounds I can recall playing. They've got more sustain than most flats, good pitch definition, and sweet, singing mids and upper mids (though this will depend on the bass and amp, of course). I've never felt lost in the mix with them. They can sound nice and full but, with the wrong bass or through the wrong rig or with the wrong approach to EQ, I can see them sounding thin and middy.

Chromes I don't have a ton of experience with, though I've played some basses strung up with them. The first time I played them, I liked them -- gave some kick and definition to a student's previously wimpy Ibanez -- but since then, not so much. To my ear, they have a weird ping in the upper mids and there's something about the feel I don't like (that might just be the basses I've tried with them, though), though I get why people dig them -- they are a bright flat that lets you dig in and play fast and hard and won't turn into a wash of thump in a mix. I could see them working well with overdrive. They probably have other positive qualities that I haven't played them long enough to explore. ;)

I've played DR Flats and a few others, but, overall, the TIs and GHS have been my favorites so far. I am not much of a pick player, but I think the GHS would work well for that -- TIs might, depending on the bass and your attack as well as the tone you're going for.

The Cobalt Flats and the lighter LaBella Flats sound interesting for different reasons.

Hope that helps!


*A set of (I think) light Sadowsky flats felt the same way. The undetermined half-rounds that were on that bass when I got it worked great for it, though -- good tension, feel and tone. When I tried swapping those to the Brute, though, they felt and sounded like fence-wire on that bass -- harsh, rough, stiff, and unmusical.
 
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My 5-string P bass has D'Addario Chromes on it and they work really well for pick or just about any other style of playing.

At first they're surprisingly bright, but that fades after an hour or two of playing them. They have just a little bit more edge to them than other flatwounds that I've tried, and they have a lot of tension so definitely not floppy. The B string is super tight and pronounced even on a p Bass.

GHS Precision Flats should fit the bill. One of my favorite flats.

I use TIs too. But they're more refined sounding to my ears. I don't think they'll give you what you're looking for when you dig in.

I love TI's, but from what you have said, it sounds to me like your next stop should be D'Addario Chromes or GHS Precision flats.
Chromes felt like the 760FS, which was weird and too tense for my taste. I like to bend and sustain, but the Precision Flats and Brite Flats are both on my list after the Pressurewounds. Everyone kept calling the Precision Flats more vintage sounding, but I'm beginning to wonder if they may be closer to the Dunlops. It's hard to tell as everyone's ears are so different. I'm willing to test anything, it's just slow going as I'm trying to give each string a week worth of gigs, which isn't fair as some need a month or 2 to break in. My main question was whether to even try the TIs. My current list is PW, then PF and BF from GHS. I think I do need to add La Bella LTFs though to my list.
 
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In order to add confusion..

Have you tried the Labella's Low Tension Flexible Flats? The thumpy sound of the Deep Talking flats with lower tension but more tension than the TI flats.

However, they do not have the midrange complexity of the TI Flats; more of a traditional flats sound.
 
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TI Jazz flats are actually not all that low tension. On a 34" scale (per Thomastik):
  • 28.2 pounds for C
  • 44.97 pounds for G
  • 50.71 pounds for D
  • 44.5 pounds for A
  • 39.46 pounds for E
  • 34.17 pounds for B
For a 4-string, E to G set, that's 179.64 pounds.

A "Custom Medium" set of GHS Precision Flats (45, 60, 80, 105) is, per GHS, 41.5, 46.5, 44.9, and 41.2 pounds for G, D, A, and E, respectively. That's 174.1 pounds total -- 5.5 pounds less than the Thomastik set.

A four-string "Medium" set of Precision Flats (45, 65, 85, 105) is 184.6 pounds total (D and A jump up to ~51 pounds tension); 5 pounds more than the TI Flats.

You can look up the tensions for other sets and/or brands, if you wish.

I've used the Precision Flats on three basses (a six string fretted and a five string fretless, neither of which I have anymore, and a four-string Squier P/J I souped-up for a friend) and have the TI Flats on two basses (a five string fretless and a four string Brubaker Brute). On the fretless five, the TIs actually feel pretty taut -- not floppy at all -- and that bass has pretty low action. On the Brute (where they've been for years), they feel good, but a little more flexible/supple. I also have the action a little higher on that bass. I play everything from Motown to Lou Reed to fingerpicked chords to slapping (which they do pretty well, but not fantastically) on that bass with the TIs and have gotten lots of compliments on the tone. They're a great match for that bass. Likewise, on the fretless, nice feel and pitch definition, including on the B, with some growl.

I tried the TIs on another fretless (that I don't have anymore) and on that bass they felt like noodles*. It was a stark difference. I've tried them on at least one other bass (forget which) with similar results.

For the GHS Flats, I used the "Custom Medium" gauges (though I'm pretty sure that I had to put the set together from individual strings at the time) because they're more balanced in tension between the middle and the outer strings than the regular "Medium" set. Those strings did indeed feel noticeably stiff than the TIs, even though they're a hair less in overall tension.

As has been often said in string threads, there is a difference between stiffness (or its converse, flexibility) and tension. The TI Jazz Flats are definitely more flexible strings than the GHS Precision Flats.

So why do the TIs feel so different on different basses? I'm not sure. I suspect that it has to do with the stiffness of the wood and the construction of each bass, but I am sure that there are influencing factors of which I'm unaware. I do know that I wouldn't put them on a bass that felt a little "loose" to begin with.

The GHS flats, on the other hand, were just the ticket for tightening up the feel (and beefing up the tone) of a six string that felt a hair on the "loose" side with rounds (though it did better when I put a balanced-tension set of Kallium rounds on there). The sixer with the flats still had some bite but was more supportive in a band mix (better able to drive and give the band a kick in the butt) than it was before. I also liked them on the fretless, where I was never 100% happy with the B-string on that bass with various tapewounds. (On the current fretless, I think they'd be too much/too stiff.) On the Squier P/J, they were the only flats I tried, but they worked really well off the bat so I kept them on.

In general, I'd say that the GHS flats have more thump than the TIs (but not as much as some) and better mids than a lot of flats. I recall them still having good definition in the mix. On the same bass, you could likely get away with a lower setup with the GHS Flats than with the TIs.

The TIs are more supple than most flats (moreso than some rounds) and encourage some subtlety of touch and finger/pick placement. They might benefit from a slightly higher action/different setup on some basses. For me, they haven't had much of a deep thump, but they do have a little more meat to the note and a little more kick at the start than most rounds I can recall playing. They've got more sustain than most flats, good pitch definition, and sweet, singing mids and upper mids (though this will depend on the bass and amp, of course). I've never felt lost in the mix with them. They can sound nice and full but, with the wrong bass or through the wrong rig or with the wrong approach to EQ, I can see them sounding thin and middy.

Chromes I don't have a tone of experience with, though I've played some basses strung up with them. The first time I played them, I liked them -- gave some kick and definition to a student's previously wimpy Ibanez -- but since then, not so much. To my ear, they have a weird ping in the upper mids and there's something about the feel I don't like (that might just be the basses I've tried with them, though), though I get why people dig them -- they are a bright flat that lets you dig in and play fast and hard and won't turn into a wash of thump in a mix. I could see them working well with overdrive. They probably have other positive qualities that I haven't played them long enough to explore. ;)

I've played DR Flats and a few others, but, overall, the TIs and GHS have been my favorites so far. I am not much of a pick player, but I think the GHS would work well for that -- TIs might, depending on the bass and your attack as well as the tone you're going for.

The Cobalt Flats and the lighter LaBella Flats sound interesting for different reasons.

Hope that helps!


*A set of (I think) light Sadowsky flats felt the same way. The undetermined half-rounds that were on that bass when I got it worked great for it, though -- good tension, feel and tone. When I tried swapping those to the Brute, though, they felt and sounded like fence-wire on that bass -- harsh, rough, stiff, and unmusical.
Holy crap, I love you. This is the level of detail I was hoping to find. I have the same feeling about Chromes, which lends me hope that your view will line up with on GHS and TIs, and it sounds like the GHS may just be perfect for me. I need to order a set online though. Another couple days of waiting I suppose.
 
...but from above had a miserable QC issue (might be me, I'm man enough to say I change strings so rarely with flats, I could of screwed every single thing up myself). But I've lost confidence in the string because of it (and they are hard to buy). So I'm on the search.

Just to eliminate possible causes, are the nut and bridge slots properly fit to the strings and clean? Did you set the "break" angle at the nut and bridge?
 
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Just to eliminate possible causes, are the nut and bridge slots properly fit to the strings and clean? Did you set the "break" angle at the nut and bridge?
Yeah after the D string broke, I examined the bridge and nut. Went through and cleaned the bridge, I don't blame the string for that. Nut was already good. The angles are about where I normally set with any other string, but I think that may play into the thin sounding G, but what was weird is a string from a different pack was perfectly fine.
 
As I said in a previous post, I am one who finds TI's floppy. But to be very clear, I find them very well worth the adjustment in playing technique. Nothing sounds like them and I love them on Ric's.
 
TI Jazz flats are actually not all that low tension. On a 34" scale (per Thomastik):
  • 28.2 pounds for C
  • 44.97 pounds for G
  • 50.71 pounds for D
  • 44.5 pounds for A
  • 39.46 pounds for E
  • 34.17 pounds for B
For a 4-string, E to G set, that's 179.64 pounds.
Hi , where did you find that information? On the TI website it lists the tensions of a 4 string set as E 34.39, A 31.30, D 37.47 , G 37.03 which totals 140.19 pounds http://www.thomastik-infeld.com/sites/default/files/catalogue/bass_guitar_2015.pdf
 
TI Jazz Flats are my favorite strings on several basses, including fretted and fretless. Sadowsky Black Label Flats worked better than TI's on one of my P basses, but they aren't made any longer. I'd suggest looking into the new Sadowsky Blue Label Flats. I believe they are supposed to be more like TI JFs but with a bit more tension if I recall.
 
Holy crap, I love you...
Whoa, there -- I'll settle for a firm handshake, pardner. ;)
This is the level of detail I was hoping to find. I have the same feeling about Chromes, which lends me hope that your view will line up with on GHS and TIs, and it sounds like the GHS may just be perfect for me. I need to order a set online though. Another couple days of waiting I suppose.
Glad to help. If the strings are in stock at Bass Strings Online, they should ship pretty quickly. They might have an expedited shipping option, if you think you'll need it.

Chromes felt like the 760FS, which was weird and too tense for my taste. I like to bend and sustain, but the Precision Flats and Brite Flats are both on my list after the Pressurewounds. Everyone kept calling the Precision Flats more vintage sounding, but I'm beginning to wonder if they may be closer to the Dunlops. It's hard to tell as everyone's ears are so different. I'm willing to test anything, it's just slow going as I'm trying to give each string a week worth of gigs, which isn't fair as some need a month or 2 to break in. My main question was whether to even try the TIs. My current list is PW, then PF and BF from GHS. I think I do need to add La Bella LTFs though to my list.
Be advised that the Brite Flats and Precision Flats are rather different strings -- the Brite Flats are more like a half-round/quarter-round/ground-wound than true flats. I had them, briefly, on a project bass that never fully came together -- I found them grabby-feeling, but also didn't give them a fair chance to break in, for what it's worth.
 
Chromes felt like the 760FS, which was weird and too tense for my taste. I like to bend and sustain, but the Precision Flats and Brite Flats are both on my list after the Pressurewounds. Everyone kept calling the Precision Flats more vintage sounding, but I'm beginning to wonder if they may be closer to the Dunlops. It's hard to tell as everyone's ears are so different. I'm willing to test anything, it's just slow going as I'm trying to give each string a week worth of gigs, which isn't fair as some need a month or 2 to break in. My main question was whether to even try the TIs. My current list is PW, then PF and BF from GHS. I think I do need to add La Bella LTFs though to my list.
My answer at this point would be “Not yet.” I am a huge fan of TIs, but given how much more expensive they are than other strings, I wouldn’t try them unless none of the other highly recommended options give you what you are after. Just my two cents worth of advice (and some people would say that overstates the value of my opinion :laugh:).
 
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Hi , where did you find that information? On the TI website it lists the tensions of a 4 string set as E 34.39, A 31.30, D 37.47 , G 37.03 which totals 140.19 pounds http://www.thomastik-infeld.com/sites/default/files/catalogue/bass_guitar_2015.pdf
D'oh! You are absolutely right. (And I am a little embarrassed.) Thanks for catching that. I was looking at the tension chart for the INFELD set -- the Jazz flats are at the same link you and I gave, but you have to scroll down. Just goes to show that you can be detailed but still wrong.

My subjective impressions of the TI Flats still stand (and I think that they are still in line with some other sets I've used, tension-wise, but will be checking that carefully) but the figures I gave are wrong and they are indeed significantly lower in tension than the GHS Flats I listed.

I will make the correction in my post.

@Elder Rynok, apologies for giving you bad info. re the tension numbers, above! Thought I was being careful. I'm glad that it was caught quickly.
 
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TI Jazz Flats are my favorite strings on several basses, including fretted and fretless. Sadowsky Black Label Flats worked better than TI's on one of my P basses, but they aren't made any longer. I'd suggest looking into the new Sadowsky Blue Label Flats. I believe they are supposed to be more like TI JFs but with a bit more tension if I recall.
That’s a really good suggestion. Over the past month, I’ve been trying the Sadowsky Blue Label Flats for the first time and really like them a lot. They share many characteristics with the TI Jazz Flats, but with a little more tension and/or a little less flex. FWIW, I say “and/or” because I’m not confident that I can always properly distinguish between differences in string feel attributable to tension vs stiffness. In any case, whatever the reason, the Blue Labels feel a little firmer than the TIs.
 
Okay, since I brought up tension numbers (and goofed the numbers for the TI Flats), the LaBella Low Tension Flats are listed as follows at the LaBella site. (Feel free to correct me if you spot a mistake!)
  • Total Tension in Lbs: 134.90 (1st 36.2, 2nd 34, 3rd 30.5, 4th 34.2)
  • String Gauges: .042, .056, .075, .100
They are a bit lower in tension than the TI Jazz Flats. Can't say how they feel, as I've not played them.

The TI Flats are also in the same ballpark, tension-wise, as the balanced-tension sets of rounds I've used on my main bass. (Usually in the neighborhood of ~35 pounds/string and something like 40, 55, 75, 100 gauges, though I might go 45, 60, 80, 105 with another bass -- that is if I'm picking my gauges and not getting an off-the-shelf set.)

Finally, now that I think back to it, when I went from the Kallium rounds to the GHS flats on the six-string that I mentioned above, a (small) truss-rod adjustment was required.
 
D'oh! You are absolutely right. (And I am a little embarrassed.) Thanks for catching that. I was looking at the tension chart for the INFELD set -- the Jazz flats are at the same link you and I gave, but you have to scroll down. Just goes to show that you can be detailed but still wrong.

My subjective impressions of the TI Flats still stand (and I think that they are still in line with some other sets I've used, tension-wise, but will be checking that carefully) but the figures I gave are wrong and they are indeed significantly lower in tension than the GHS Flats I listed.

I will make the correction in my post.

@Elder Rynok, apologies for giving you bad info. re the tension numbers, above! Thought I was being careful. I'm glad that it was caught quickly.
Hey, you admitted your mistake. What's funny is I looked at the tensions earlier this week, did the math for 140, but didn't even question what you said. I gave you too much love because I respected your opinion on Chromes.
That’s a really good suggestion. Over the past month, I’ve been trying the Sadowsky Blue Label Flats for the first time and really like them a lot. They share many characteristics with the TI Jazz Flats, but with a little more tension and/or a little less flex. FWIW, I say “and/or” because I’m not confident that I can always properly distinguish between differences in string feel attributable to tension vs stiffness. In any case, whatever the reason, the Blue Labels feel a little firmer than the TIs.
Okay, well, I just ordered some TIs to try, but you describing them as similar to Sadowsky Blues concerns me now as I hated the Sadowsky Blues. I have 2 packs I bought and never used. They were actually the flats I tried first 2 years ago, before I tried the Dunlops. The sounded good, but never bit well when I dug in.
 
Okay, I need everyone's help. I don't have the time to try every string under the sun. I am playing too much right now. I have been using Dunlop Flatwounds for almost 2 years I think. I loved them, but the QC is horrible. A couple of dead E strings, balance on the G string off and tinny, and 2 strings from 2 different packs that broke when tuned to pitch and plucked.

I know you might be thinking it's the bass or it's me, you might be right, but I can't take that risk with my schedule right now.

I am looking for a thumpy string with good grit, nice low-end growl. And grindy when I dig in with a pick and distortion. (mostly prefer flatwounds) The TI flats almost sound perfect, but I have avoided them due to worry about pick playing since they are so loose, but I have tried so many strings lately that don't feel right. I am currently giving pressurewounds a try and don't hate them, but is it even worth my time to try TI Flats?


Mostly I play a 5 string fretless, and swear by La Bella flatwounds, as big as possible, 130 B, 110E etc. I play really hard so a thinner string goes sharp, not to mention breaking. I also play a fretted 5 string and use "groundwound" for that. Kind of best of both worlds. I find they provide a rich balance of low tones, but still give enough brightness to high end riffs. Ive seen these strings called "bright flats" This bass is a hohner with the steinberger headless setup which uses double ball end strings. Hard to find, but sooo worth it!
 
Hey, you admitted your mistake. What's funny is I looked at the tensions earlier this week, did the math for 140, but didn't even question what you said. I gave you too much love because I respected your opinion on Chromes.

Okay, well, I just ordered some TIs to try, but you describing them as similar to Sadowsky Blues concerns me now as I hated the Sadowsky Blues. I have 2 packs I bought and never used. They were actually the flats I tried first 2 years ago, before I tried the Dunlops. The sounded good, but never bit well when I dug in.

The new Sadowsky Blue Label Flats (out since last fall) are different than the old version that you have. There's plenty of info and feedback on the new ones here on TB.

Regarding the two sets of the old Blue Label version that you have, there are several here who I'm sure would LOVE to buy them from you. @ljazz being one of those.
 
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