Why Do Bass Players Not Question the Validity of What They Are Taught

[JeffBerlin]

Jeff said - "I never said i was THE best, even though I am."

Some of us actually have studied music for more than 4 years, as well as the written and spoken word. If you were able to read what has been written to you in this thread you might have an understanding of why many consider you - not your playing - sub standard. You can play, but you can't allow for the existence of your musical peer or superior.

I feel bad for you. Maybe some day you will understand.

I'm not speaking to those who have studied more than four years. Why did you feel that my message pertained to you?

 

[Mechanical]

No! I know of Joe Hubbard and Zoltan Dekany in England. In America, I barely know of anyone other than me. I am a great teacher because I know exactly what problems will befall anyone that wishes to improve. So does Joe and Zoltan. But, in the U.S., although they are here, I don't know who the great bass teachers are because I never needed to know.

In honesty, I didn't want my question to be a set up. Because I understand your point that at the end of the day, bass playing is knowing where to put your fingers on the fretboard and for how long. Put another way, what notes should you be playing and where are they on the neck. There's obviously some technique that needs to be learned along the way (muting, for example).

But I don't think you do knee to knee or Skype lessons, do you? I know that you have your videos, but those aren't really lessons...they are material for someone who wants to be self-taught, just like Youtube videos aren't really lessons, they are materials for folks who want to learn on their own.

I think that a worthwhile exercise would be to put together a list of people who agree with your way of teaching. Because I've gone to two piano teachers and a cello teacher and they don't know what to do with the electric bass.

 

[Spin Doctor]

Because I've gone to two piano teachers and a cello teacher and they don't know what to do with the electric bass.

If you go to a classically trained pianist or cello teacher, what is he supposed to show you? The musical content of most classical players revolves around reading notes from a page. To that end, they show you how to cross your fingers properly or position a bow to efficiently execute a run or other technique. All that is to just allow you to play from sheet music.

If you went to a jazz pianist, he would probably understand that you need to make the changes and he could show you (for example) how functional harmony works in a jazz and probably a rock or blues context. You would just have to make the translation from that context to the bass. Since it's all just music, it should just be a matter of some shed time.

I guess Berlins premise is that most bassist don't know any of that, (which is completely slapping the upright community in the face.) and can only show you grooves, how to create a bassline, etc. Which depending on what you play, that could easily be all you need to know. If you are never gonna play Giant Steps, do you really need to know all that tricky jazz stuff? It's a personal choice.

 

[JeffBerlin]

This seems to be the quote from me that got many people upset.

"In America, (regarding a qualified bass teacher) I barely know of anyone other than me. I am a great teacher because I know exactly what problems will befall anyone that wishes to improve. So does Joe and Zoltan. But, in the U.S., although they are here, I don't know who the great bass teachers are because I never needed to know."

If I referred to myself as the best bass teacher in America, I don't apologize for it. My background in academic training is well beyond anyone else that teaches the electric bass. A little research should validate this. It is in my long term experience as a student, not a teacher, where I learned what bass players will benefit from learning. There are teachers here in the U.S. that know this material, but you will have a hard time finding out who these bass teachers are.

Several things happened in this thread that were interesting for me to take notice of. One is that a lot of people misquoted me. But this happens a lot with me. People don't read what I say, only what they think that I said. Another is that I saw how more effort was put into finding flaw with my manner of communication than with discussing music and the learning of it. This is how I have come to believe that few people here really are interested in learning correctly. The subject simply isn't of an interest to a lot of bass owners. Fortunately, people can enter into a new world of academic learning and practicing if they decide to make learning well their priority.

I also notice that no one named a teacher of their acquaintance that teaches music exclusively. I'd be happy to know who these people are and what they teach. But, it seems that barely anyone knows even one bass teacher skilled in the teaching of harmony and musical content. And this is precisely what my posts have all been about.

I tend to engage with bass players that cannot disengage their feelings from the topic being discussed. Read Sam Harris:

"We have to distinguish between how we treat ideas and how we treat people." Some people on TB tend not to know how to differentiate the two principles.

All this can change and it can begin with you if you are willing.

Wishing you all well.

 

[JeffBerlin]

In honesty, I didn't want my question to be a set up. Because I understand your point that at the end of the day, bass playing is knowing where to put your fingers on the fretboard and for how long. Put another way, what notes should you be playing and where are they on the neck. There's obviously some technique that needs to be learned along the way (muting, for example).

But I don't think you do knee to knee or Skype lessons, do you? I know that you have your videos, but those aren't really lessons...they are material for someone who wants to be self-taught, just like Youtube videos aren't really lessons, they are materials for folks who want to learn on their own.

I think that a worthwhile exercise would be to put together a list of people who agree with your way of teaching. Because I've gone to two piano teachers and a cello teacher and they don't know what to do with the electric bass.

Thanks for sharing. Are the teachers that you went to jazz instructors? These would be the kind of piano teachers to study with.

No, I don't teach privately anymore. But, I am willing to meet with you for free on Skype for two or three sessions and give you a private lesson. This way I can show you what I know to work in regards in helping anyone to improve their musical thing. I only ask that you write a post about our meeting. I'd like you to report your experience with me and with my approach to teaching. Just report exactly as you perceived our meeting to have gone. If you are willing, send me a private message and I will give you my Skype address.

 

[JeffBerlin]

Here is a general message to ponder. Read Christopher Hitchens:

"If someone tells me that I've hurt their feelings, I'm still waiting to hear what your point is. I've been told, "That's offensive" as if those two words constitute an argument or a comment. Not to me they don't."

I read with interest what was shared with me in this thread. People clearly are not content with my criticizing bass educators and find my manner of communication unpleasant. I don’t find these comments worthy of attention. I am never rude, and I am FAR less personal than some can be. Therefore, I thought to make clear that I could care less if people choose to find offense or dislike in my views. But, I also invite those people to review how they wish to interact with me (if they wish to do so at all) and reach out and discuss bass education, both the pros and cons of it. Only one person today brought a point about learning the bass to the thread. He made a comment, I answered it and he thanked me. How refreshing! People should be inspired by him.

If people have an interest in finding out how to improve their bass playing, they are invited to do the same with me. Good luck!

 

[SteveCS]

...

I guess Berlins premise is that most bassist don't know any of that, (which is completely slapping the upright community in the face.) ...

Notwithstanding the fact that I wholeheartedly agree with what Jeff has said about the teaching of music, he has by my understanding also been absolutely clear that he is only talking in the context of electric bass guitar.

 

[guy n. cognito]

People clearly are not content with my criticizing bass educators

I know I said I was done, but I'm curious: you stated above that you had no knowledge of bass educators (because you didn't need to know) when asked for recommendations, yet you seem to have enough knowledge of the discipline to be critical of many. Can you explain? Are you making assumptions on the bass education market in general?

 

[mobdirt]

Hi Jeff, you played a song when you came to India, the bass rhythm was very groovy and chromatic, great bass line, i cant remember the name nor find the song online, i know it's not much of a clue and it was a while ago.. but would really like to listen to that again

 

[SteveCS]

If you go to a classically trained pianist or cello teacher, what is he supposed to show you? The musical content of most classical players revolves around reading notes from a page. To that end, they show you how to cross your fingers properly or position a bow to efficiently execute a run or other technique. All that is to just allow you to play from sheet music.

...

This tells me that you have never had any significant classical training to any level or of any quality. Once past grade 5, the level of musicianship and depth of knowledge and understanding increases exponentially. Just looking around some of the questions and answers given around the place it's obvious that plenty of people barely know one end of a major triad from the other. The really crazy thing is that even when the right answers appear those guys just roll their nonsense out the next time a similar question pops up. They won't even make the effort to correct their own self-learning for next time, so the chances of getting anything out of a formal process are probably next to nil.
YMMV, I suppose.

 

[smperry]

This is a mess. I am closing this thread for moderator review.

@JeffBerlin please don't start a similar thread.