Less than you think! But, even this point isn't important. My views are about bass education, not touring and gigging. It seems hard for some bass players to grasp this point.
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Why Do Bass Players Not Question the Validity of What They Are Taught
- Thread starter JeffBerlin
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I understand what your point is, I just think you’re missing the point that you’re teaching in the art building, not the science building. With science, you have verifiable results and can prove that one method is better than the previous method. It’s more efficient, faster, etc. The art world doesn’t fit into a box. Monet and Picasso both coexist and are both awesomely awesome. Berklee will continue to do its thing and people will continue to pay a lot of money to go there.
Example: I’m currently at the Bass Boot Camp. Anthony Wellington has his techniques where you randomize 1 through 7 and asks if you know the C major scale. Then, you have to play the randomized sequence on one string in a certain range of the fretboard and it’s difficult. So, ta da he’s proven that you don’t know the C major scale. Whatever. He plays with Victor Wooten, and tells us frequently. And he has an ever increasing level of difficulty series of exercises that will keep you going to lessons for a long time.
Meanwhile, the best bass line I’ve heard all week was from Alice Merton’s “No Roots”. And it was played on a guitar with an octave pedal. And I’m tired of hearing overly technical bass playing.
It’s art, not science. Your way is different not better. Berklee is different too, more successful, but not necessarily better.
It's fair to post opposing views, but seldom does the OP post an opposing view to his own post.
Could be! So I'll share what I see here.It's fair to post opposing views, but seldom does the OP post an opposing view to his own post.
Bass players have defined a code of behavior. It wasn't discussed nor written out, but evolved over time that certain points of on-line behavior are tolerated while other comments will be met with real anger, not over rudeness in the post, but over the very topic itself. One's conduct defined by the bass community ranks as more important than the quality of bass education or else people would discuss bass education more. But, they don't!
The original topic, that of bass education not fulfilling its promises isn't being discussed. Why? Because comments about my manner of sharing thoughts is more important than bass education. If this wasn't true, then more comments about being taught would have been posted.
I don't care what people's opinions about behavior should be. I know that I am always polite and also quite clear regarding my thoughts. Some TB members appear to me to work harder to split hairs about my form of sharing thoughts instead of tending to the far more important subject of being taught correctly. I view some here as appearing to choose not to grasp the topics that I share rather than to grasp them. I don't believe that I ever posted anything beyond one's ability to comprehend.
My wish is that people ponder my thoughts dispassionately, arrive at a conclusion, and place their musical futures on what they arrive at. Simple! It doesn't require anything more than to do this. When people attempt to criticize my manner of communication from their point of view, I see them as mpg focused on improving via ways and approaches that never came from me. They are proven to help playing to play better but bass players are not interested in improving their playing. If some are, they appear to not be interested in using music to do this. Academic improvement doesn't appear to count with some people here on TB. But, it doesn't have to stay this way.
I invite people to change their views and join in with a discussion of improving your bass playing correctly and permanently. Like it or not, you are not getting correct guidance in how to improve from most other bass sources, though you might think that you are.
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Musics is not art, not until it has been well learned. It is science! That is, it was until bass teachers took science out of it. A major third interval is scientifically proven and a part of what is taught. Music is entirely scientific, proven, perfect and requires no more than to practice it.
Where bass teachers are confused is that they combine learning with art/playing. They are not related and during one's formative training in music they never have been.
Learning requires regarding new information. Art reflects one's vision of music. These are two completely different principles. This is why I always stated that bass education is failing bass players; even most bass teachers don't know the difference between the two concepts.
Here is a test that you can try. Take a Wellington or Wooten exercise and play it in 3/4. This is one of the simplest time signatures to comprehend. Next, take a C major scale and play it in Db min maj7 two octaves. The notes are Db Eb Fb Gb Ab Bb C Db. It is simply a minor scale a half step up from C major. I predict that you won't be able to do either exercise with ease or at all, not because you are stupid, but because you weren't taught music correctly in my view.
Write me back after you've tried these exercises. I invite you not to offer thoughts about my post until you do. Then you will have a little experience to share with me which will make your comments based in experience instead of thought. Cheers.
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Sorry, passive aggressive here.
Why care so much about other bassist?
If they cared about “the problem” they would contact you, or another “qualified “ instructor.
Passive part of my post...”I love you man”
Why care so much about other bassist?
If they cared about “the problem” they would contact you, or another “qualified “ instructor.
Passive part of my post...”I love you man”
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But when was the last time I played in or was asked to play in 3/4? I’m not doing the waltz scene.
You never know, someone might ask you to play the Tennessee Waltz in Db. The arrangement could be the one that includes a bass solo in every position on the neck.
Explanation of this would be helpful as C major is not Db min. I'm not sure what you are getting at.
Regarding time shifting, we do that routinely with the house band I play in. Sometimes by design others because the leader lost his music and couldn't recall the time signature and just started playing. About 20 years ago we did the entire 2nd half of West Side Story in 3 just to make it fun for the musicians. There is little new out there and I'm sure I have successful exercises that I have created for students which others might find useful.
Back in college I'd warm up by playing whatever we were about to rehearse in different keys, just to mess with people around me.
Precisely! A Dbmin maj7 represents one sound of music, a minor major sound. It doesn't represent a major sound.
C major isn't Dbmin maj7 as a verb isn't a noun. But as a writer of English, if you know the value of using certain words at certain times, it is because you were taught this academically via the use of words and grammar only. To excel as a bass player or just to play well, you need to know what notes apply to what chord and why this is true. Did you try to play the Wellington exercise in 3/4? Did you ascend and descend on one or more strings in Db min maj7? Let me know what happens when you attempt these musical tasks.
I’d bet you’ve played in 3/4 more often than you know.
I'd be a little concerned if I was playing in 3/4 without knowing it, especially if the music was in 7/8 and I didn't know it...
Do you have a list of superior music teachers for us? Because that would truly be helpful.
No! I know of Joe Hubbard and Zoltan Dekany in England. In America, I barely know of anyone other than me. I am a great teacher because I know exactly what problems will befall anyone that wishes to improve. So does Joe and Zoltan. But, in the U.S., although they are here, I don't know who the great bass teachers are because I never needed to know.
I would submit that it isn't well put at all as art and learning are two entirely different principles of music. This is a fact of music that most bass players aren't even aware of. But, to be fair, i also admire the fact that this person was thinking.
With all due respect, Jeff.....I hold the opinion that his comment was well put, right on track, and a valid contrast to your position. It was a given that you would disagree. I would further opine that the art and learning sides are inexorably linked. The education is pointless if you can’t translate it to art. Again, it’s a given that you will disagree with that statement.
You were asked above: who are the superior music teachers. The only example you can give is yourself in the US. Three total in the world. Respectfully, that’s hard to believe. And, as someone who is an ambassador of a proper musical education, and is here telling us we are all doing it wrong, it might be helpful to have a few more names on the list.
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