Why Do Bass Players Not Question the Validity of What They Are Taught

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Jeff said (in C major) " he is the best he knows of in the states.

In Db Minor Major - "all the teachers I have studied with in the states were sub par."

Yet with a sub-par education he became the best - but you cannot do that, nor play in 3.
 
Jeff said (in C major) " he is the best he knows of in the states.

In Db Minor Major - "all the teachers I have studied with in the states were sub par."

Yet with a sub-par education he became the best - but you cannot do that, nor play in 3.
I never said that I am the best that I know of in the states.
 
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Jeff said (in C major) " he is the best he knows of in the states.

In Db Minor Major - "all the teachers I have studied with in the states were sub par."

Yet with a sub-par education he became the best - but you cannot do that, nor play in 3.
I never said that all the teachers that I have studied with in the states were sub par. It would support your views a lot better if you quoted me correctly. Thank you.
 
But when was the last time I played in or was asked to play in 3/4? I’m not doing the waltz scene.
Learning how to play the bass is a different principle than an artistic regard of it. This is a point of view that is not easy for bass players or their teachers to understand.

3/4 is a functional time element that helps players to expand their musical abilities beyond the songs that they seek to play. It is an academic fact. Playing and learning are two entirely different principles. This appears to be THE hardest concept for bass players to grasp. But, the good new for you is that you can grow in music beyond your present abilities and do it inside of three months. But, you have to want to.
 
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With all due respect, Jeff.....I hold the opinion that his comment was well put, right on track, and a valid contrast to your position. It was a given that you would disagree. I would further opine that the art and learning sides are inexorably linked. The education is pointless if you can’t translate it to art. Again, it’s a given that you will disagree with that statement.

You were asked above: who are the superior music teachers. The only example you can give is yourself in the US. Three total in the world. Respectfully, that’s hard to believe. And, as someone who is an ambassador of a proper musical education, and is here telling us we are all doing it wrong, it might be helpful to have a few more names on the list.
I am not privy to great electric bass teachers as I never needed to know who they were. Other people do. I'm aware of a couple of guys, but that's it. Maybe in the near future, I can find out more about who is teaching great musical content only to students. As an early P.S., the reason that electric bass players make poor electric bass teachers is because they don't know how music works off their bass. Or they had a limited four year college education which, if you knew how many years top players studied music, you would know that this is a limited time to be trained in order to think that one is qualified to pass musical information to someone else. This is why there's an emphasis on groove, performance, or communication with audiences (among other unnecessary instruction.) Most electric bass teachers teach these things because they don't know how to teach music. But they have to teach SOMETHING.

There was a story that once used to go around about a smoker that smoked four packs a day and still lived until he.she was 111. If this is true, it is easier to find way more smokers that aren't so lucky as this person was. You can use this analogy as to why it is so hard to find a qualified electric bass instructor; it is way easier to find teachers that might be fine bass players, but they really shouldn't be teaching.

Finally, I never said that there weren't any qualified bass teachers in the U.S. I said that it is hard to find out who and where they are. I agree that it is hard to believe that there are barely any qualified bass teachers in the U.S. In fact, I view this as a sad reality that bass appears to be the instrument with the least academically capable instructors.
 
it is hard to believe that there are barely any qualified bass teachers in the U.S.

This has to be the most egotistical and malicious thing you've ever said, and you make asinine statements on a regular basis... It would be fine, if there was someway to actually prove it, but it's just a random remark pulled out of your behind...

I know it doesn't matter, but it's really easy to not like you as a human, for the things you say. Why do you even feel the need to do that repeatedly? It doesn't accomplish anything.
 
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I agree that it is hard to believe that there are barely any qualified bass teachers in the U.S. In fact, I view this as a sad reality that bass appears to be the instrument with the least academically capable instructors.

I believe you misunderstood my comment. I meant that is was hard to believe you are the only “superior” bass teacher in the US. You may not know of others (or be willing to acknowledge those you do know) but certainly they exist.....
 
This has to be the most egotistical and malicious thing you've ever said, and you make asinine statements on a regular basis... It would be fine, if there was someway to actually prove it, but it's just a random remark pulled out of your behind...
Yours isn't a statement that is based on the subject. If you wish to feel insulted by my views and not engage in a reasonable discussion of them, I prefer to not respond to your posts anymore until you decide to comment on the topics being discussed. Cheers!
 
I believe you misunderstood my comment. I meant that is was hard to believe you are the only “superior” bass teacher in the US. You may not know of others (or be willing to acknowledge those you do know) but certainly they exist.....
Oh, yes. The certainly do! Because there are a lot of people that believe this of other teachers and schools, why is it so hard that I, who has been so well trained in music should view this of myself. Others do, so what's the problem.
 
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Because there are a lot of people that believe this of other teachers and schools, why is it so hard that I, who has been so well trained in music should view this of myself. Others do, so what's the problem.

If that was a question, then my answer is that the problem may lie in the delivery. I have yet to experience another educator that is willing to hold themselves alone as an example of superior music education.
 
This has to be the most egotistical and malicious thing you've ever said, and you make asinine statements on a regular basis... It would be fine, if there was someway to actually prove it, but it's just a random remark pulled out of your behind...

I know it doesn't matter, but it's really easy to not like you as a human, for the things you say. Why do you even feel the need to do that repeatedly? It doesn't accomplish anything.
Sam Harris said this: We have to distinguish between how we treat ideas and how we treat people." I submit that you don't recognize the difference.

You seem to not have noticed that I make efforts to recognize both the playing ability of bass teachers and their heartfelt wish that many have to help bass players play better. If you haven't seen this in my posts, then you haven't been reading me well. Further, you confuse ego with confidence and experience. Many people do. Violating the Code of Behavior set up by the bass community is a worse offense than being taught poorly and by unqualified bass instructors. Why? Because music doesn't count with many bass players. But, fortunately, it doesn't have to stay this way.

I reject your statement outright. You don't know me and you seem not to tolerate views that conflict with yours, appearing to take it on the chin instead of taking a step back and thinking about things. So be it!. If you wish to feel insulted by my views and not engage in a reasonable discussion of them, I prefer to not respond to your posts anymore until you decide to comment on the topics being discussed.
 
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That's why I teach myself by ear. And I still question the validity of my own approach, because, how else would I learn?
Teaching yourself by ear is the only other valid way to learn (the other being taught musical content to practice. Only! The only downside by being self taught is that people have themselves to rely on, people unqualified to teach themselves. You would do way better by seeking a great jazz piano or guitar teacher to learn music to practice. Good luck to you.
 
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Teaching yourself by ear is the only other valid way to learn (the other being taught musical content to practice. Only! The only downside by being self taught is that people have themselves to rely on, people unqualified to teach themselves. You would do way better by seeking a great jazz piano or guitar teacher to learn music to practice. Good luck to you.
Thank you, and I appreciate your insight!
 
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If that was a question, then my answer is that the problem may lie in the delivery. I have yet to experience another educator that is willing to hold themselves alone as an example of superior music education.
Interesting thought. Here is a couple of forms of delivery to ponder.

1. Smoking isn't a wise choice. It could lead to health complications for some.

2. Smoking can kill you. It can also end up choking off your air supply without any hope of getting it back.

I frankly don't care if some people appear to be more affected by my writing style instead of the messages that I share. I've always been polite, yet clear. If people are more affected by tone than content, then for me, some bass players are willing to compromise their very musical futures based on the tone of a post instead of pondering the messages being shared. For me, this isn't mature thinking. I invite people to stop this.

I am mostly alone in the bass educational community because I choose not to embrace inferior musical education and justify it as having purpose because it is "different" from mine. Being different is no validation of quality. Like it or not, there are better methods and music to learn by and you are not being taught these methods. Learning via different approaches and philosophies is a poor way to justify musically insupportable teaching methods.

I do share a rich and vibrant interaction with many teachers of other instruments. I know academic excellence when I see it. Some great colleagues are members of various symphonies. Some are great jazz educators on a variety of instruments. I support fully their manner of teaching because their students improve. But, you won't find barely anyone that will improve their bass playing with popular methods because music isn't the core of those lessons.

My interest is to do two things: 1. to make bass players aware that they are not getting what they think that they are getting in their bass instruction, and seek better training, and 2. to get some teachers to work harder to learn more about music, not just for their own benefit, but for the benefit of their students. But, until this time, I don't see this happening.

Therefore, if anyone else is interested in improving your bass playing and are serious in using proven methods to do so, then go straight for jazz harmony, academically meaningful etudes and learning music via written exercises. Other than being self taught, there does not exist another trustworthy form to improve your playing. Good luck!
 
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And, I've learned something from this thread; no matter what information is shared regarding the deficits of how the electric bass is taught, few bass players have any interest in even pondering if there is some validity to my views. Bass players are too caught up in their fan love and trust of reputation to take a closer look at what and how they are being taught.

Since you invite us to ponder the validity of our views, I offer you the same. While you see the debate that consistently encircles your teaching technique as close-minded bassists "caught up in their fan love", I offer you a counter perspective. In our brief correspondence today, you have inferred (I'm being generous with that word) that you are the only bass instructor in the United States capable of offering a superior bass education. You further infer that anyone who disagrees with your methods is guilty of "fan love". Whether this is your intended message or not, it is the one that many here (and many within the bass community) get from your posts and other commentary. And that message is, at best, at bit disingenuous, and, at worst, insulting to those of us that might consider being your student.

Just something to consider. Good luck to you.
 
Since you invite us to ponder the validity of our views, I offer you the same. While you see the debate that consistently encircles your teaching technique as close-minded bassists "caught up in their fan love", I offer you a counter perspective. In our brief correspondence today, you have inferred (I'm being generous with that word) that you are the only bass instructor in the United States capable of offering a superior bass education. You further infer that anyone who disagrees with your methods is guilty of "fan love". Whether this is your intended message or not, it is the one that many here (and many within the bass community) get from your posts and other commentary. And that message is, at best, at bit disingenuous, and, at worst, insulting to those of us that might consider being your student.

Just something to consider. Good luck to you.
Thank you for sharing. To begin, I never said that I am the only bass teacher in the US capable of offering a superior bass education. I said that I am the best bass teacher in the U.S. I said this because no one that teaches the electric bass has my background in academic training. If you think that I am wrong, then go and research the background of any other electric bass educator and find out their academic history. You may be surprised by what you discover.

Further, I never stated that anyone that disagrees with me is guilty of fan love. In so many words, I said that fans are so caught up in their fan love that they lack the ability to extricate themselves from blind trust to achieve a little dispassionate regard about what is being taught to them.

I appreciate your sharing but will tell you the same thing that I have said for a long time to a lot of people: You don't read what I write. You only read what you think that I wrote.
 
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Jeff said - "I never said i was THE best, even though I am."

Some of us actually have studied music for more than 4 years, as well as the written and spoken word. If you were able to read what has been written to you in this thread you might have an understanding of why many consider you - not your playing - sub standard. You can play, but you can't allow for the existence of your musical peer or superior.

I feel bad for you. Maybe some day you will understand.
 
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I never said that I am the only bass teacher in the US capable of offering a superior bass education. I said that I am the best bass teacher in the U.S. I said this because no one that teaches the electric bass has my background in academic training. I am not a better player than anyone else. I am not a better person than anyone else. I am a way better bass teacher than anyone else because I was taught by some of the greatest music teachers in the world for decades. Not one other electric bass teacher has my credentials.

If you think that I am wrong, then go and research the background of any other electric bass educator and find out their academic history.

Further, I never stated that anyone that disagrees with me is guilty of fan love. I stated that fans are so caught up in their fan love that they lack the ability to ponder my thoughts at face value (so to speak.)

I appreciate your sharing but will tell you the same thing that I have said for a long time to a lot of people: You didn't read what I wrote. You only read what you think that I wrote. I invite you to change this. Best regards.

Respectfully, not only did I read what you wrote, but this post confirms my interpretation. And, given that I have taken bass lessons from others with substantial musical academic backgrounds, I find the premise under which you claim yourself the "best bass teacher in the US" to be a bit unprovable.

I can see no further benefit coming from continuing this discussion. Good luck to you.
 
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