Wired IEM with Dual (Instrument/Headphone) Cable

I always run the IEM cable down the back of my shirt, preferably between an undershirt and over shirt...

Interesting...I know some people run the cable inside clothes, but I guess that's another thing that highlights individual preference. Personally, I like to have the IEM cable completely free from the cinch to the plug end. Although it's still able to move, I just don't like the sensation of even slight resistance that periodically comes from the cable being under the strap, whether over or under a shirt.
 
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Funny this thread comes up again... right after a musician friend (guitar player) gave me his combo cable a couple days ago. After he seen my combo cable made by X-Bass Cables 4 years ago, he made his own combo cables for himself... and did a pretty good job.

iem_bass_combo2.jpg


He went all wireless so he doesn't need the cables anymore. I got the chance to play with is band a couple weeks ago, and I was a little jealous of the wireless freedom he had on stage. The combo cable is convenient, but not as free as going all wireless. After seeing, hearing, and trying his wireless set up, I'm convinced in going all wireless in the next month... then I'll have 2 combo cables I won't be using anymore.
 
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Ok guys, this is a cool thread. I have been using wired IEMs since maybe April/May with my yacht rock band. Rehearsing with the instrument cable and headphone wire separate is not that big a deal; I'm not moving around too much. However, at gigs, of which I've had 2 now, having the IEM wire dangling is a bit annoying. I've been tucking the 3.5mm plug/IEM plug into my guitar strap, which holds it for the most part. It's not super elegant and it pops out.

Now I see this thread and I'm inspired. I have a 15' instrument cable. Should my IEM extender be 15' or should I go longer? And, I also have Rolls PM351, which I was using before we started using X Air at rehearsals. Does it make sense to run the mixer headphone mix to the Rolls (at pedalboard), and then plug my IEM extender to the Rolls?

I'm finding I don't like to adjust signals via iPad, would rather adjust my vocals/bass with knobs via Rolls, set and forget.

Anyway, will order cables today or tomorrow and hope to have them ready by Sunday's practice. Thanks!

EDIT TO ADD: Where can I find shrink wrap tubes that don't come in bulk packs? I don't need more than a few pieces to wrap up a cable and don't want to get 600 pieces.

EDIT TO ADD: Looks like Harbor Freight is the answer to that question.
 
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I have a 15' instrument cable. Should my IEM extender be 15' or should I go longer?

Where can I find shrink wrap tubes that don't come in bulk packs? I don't need more than a few pieces to wrap up a cable and don't want to get 600 pieces.

It works for me to be about the same length or shorter because I've found that I like to have the female end shorter than the instrument cable, but the earphone extension cable can be whatever length works best for you...if something about longer works for the way you want to set it up, then longer is best.

I can't comment on how to make use of your Rolls. I just use the headphone amp as a headphone amp, not to mix anything, so I can't say I even fully understand what you're trying to do there. I had a Rolls and didn't use any of the other features, just in from the mixer and out to the earphones.

The way I look at it, yes, I understand not needing/wanting hundreds of pieces of shrink tube, but some of the variety packs ensure that you'll have a wider selection of diameters, which can be good, and buying on Amazon, the bulk packs are hardly bank-breaking.
 
This would really only be of interest if you run your bass wired and are using or looking into IEM setups (and aren't 100% sure of the details of available options). While there is a sort of intuitive attraction to wireless IEMs, I've found that running wired bass, on balance, leaves almost no practical advantage to wireless IEMs. There are individual advantages to either one, and how those come out on balance is a matter of personal preference, but that shouldn't be based on mistaken ideas about what is involved.

A number of comments I've seen make me believe that there are general notions floating around that wired IEM setups are more involved and cumbersome than they actually have to be. There also seem some naturally picked up misconceptions about what's required. I saw one comment that a wired IEM setup involving "a small mixer" was recommended; that one left me scratching my head. I'm aware of and briefly looked at the Jump Audio IMX system but it doesn't really make sense to me given the alternatives...I can see (while still considerably less that higher tier wireless systems) how some people might be turned off by the prices alone.

Wired IEM involves exactly what the name says; simply getting a wired signal to your ears. At bottom, this requires a headphone amp. Beyond that, there are multiple forms that the setup can take in terms of details of the configuration and cabling and in terms of cost.

My progression through this has been that I was using wireless for both my bass and IEMs. Over time, I found that wireless for my bass really wasn't doing anything for me, and overall, I actually preferred wired. I ditched my wireless bass unit but kept using wireless IEMs. Over time and with a couple of unfortunate incidents, I began to question that and not knowing too much about available wired solutions, I looked into it. I decided that using a simple (DIY) dual instrument/IEM cable made the most sense for me. The recent addition for me of audio over cat cable snakes makes it an absolute home run.

Since it seems like written descriptions and photos sometimes don't fully convey what's meant, some of the comments I had seen recently prompted me to try to share in a short video describing what's working for me. If you're considering wired IEMs but aren't sure what the various options involve or have come to believe that it's necessarily a cumbersome setup, this perspective might be of benefit.



(Edit: Based on comment prior to the post, I have considered having a volume control at my hip which could be done with an inline volume control (<$10 item) but I haven't felt the need. I generally use the volume control on the headphone amp during setup/soundcheck and on the control app after that. That's been sufficient for me.)


Elegant solution. Thanks for sharing. I need to do this myself.
 
I can't comment on how to make use of your Rolls. I just use the headphone amp as a headphone amp, not to mix anything, so I can't say I even fully understand what you're trying to do there. I had a Rolls and didn't use any of the other features, just in from the mixer and out to the earphones.

Yeah, with the Rolls, I think it's gonna be trial and error. Just like a touchscreen in a car, I don't like having to look and touch and slide; I'd rather know which knob does what and twist accordingly. I'm finding that via the mixer, though I can hear in the IEMs, it isn't as natural to me as using a floor wedge. The learning curve has been weird for me; part of it is the band doesn't have their vocal parts 100% ironed out (me included). And not knowing who is singing what note at what time makes for inconsistent vocals.

My plan is to get a basic mix via the mixer, then be able to adjust for bass and vox at the Rolls. And if it works, great. And if not, I'll just run the IEM extension to the mixer and go from there.

I've had a hard time adjusting to the IEM learning curve, if that's even a thing. I can sing, but everyone else has to hit their parts. If someone drifts close to my note, I tend to mirror that note and, well, that don't sound so good.
 
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...like a touchscreen in a car, I don't like having to look and touch and slide; I'd rather know which knob does what and twist accordingly.

I've had a hard time adjusting to the IEM learning curve, if that's even a thing. I can sing, but everyone else has to hit their parts. If someone drifts close to my note, I tend to mirror that note and, well, that don't sound so good.

Alright. I hope you can work it out.

I have control apps on my phone for the rigs I work with (Mackie and Allen&Heath) and don't tend to have to do too much more than some minor adjustments at each use. I'm usually good to go by the time sound check is done, but I don't generally find it a struggle to use the apps.

People have different preferences as to what's in their IEM mix. Some people put their instrument and vocals above everything else, and I've not seen where any two people had the same mix in their ears. One band, the lead singer's mix is almost entirely her vocals...everything else either muted or very low. Personally, I like to hear the blends and run vocals at around the same level or myself a little lower than other vocals. I need it that way to make sure I sing out (I hold back or just be uncomfortable with the mix if I feel like my vocals are too loud).
 
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Shrink tube is absolutely recommendable. Repeating from above...

A couple of notes on shrink tube...I used the type with adhesive inside, probably not necessary, but it just seemed like there might be a hold benefit. If you use that, realize that between the shrinkage and hardened adhesive, it becomes fairly rigid, so you might want to limit the length that you use to what's necessary. Also, you can get packs of cut pieces that have an assortment of sizes, which are good for being able to use the smallest possible diameter as a starting point (goes to neatness).

finished mine. I even had some shrink tube laying around from another project so I did not have to run to the hardware store (nice). I also learned that you can shrink the tube material with a hair dryer (I don't have a heat gun). So, win win. Tried it out earlier (dry run situation) and it works as expected, and I got the tail ends pretty much where I want them too.

thanks for all the advice/guidance. nice little hands on project to help with my migration to IEM's.
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Shrinktube gurus! I got my bits and pieces. I got the cable sleeve around the two cables (headphone extender/instrument cable). Lengths are adequate on either end. But I can't seem to get the shrink wrap around both plugs on either side. I used needlenose pliers to stretch the tube a little and I can get it over the instrument cable and its cap. However, I cannot get the extender through the tube.

Any tips? What did I miss??

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I cannot get the extender through the tube.

I didn't face the same challenges as you. I used extensions with mini-plugs, and it looks like your instrument cable is pretty stout too.

Sorry to be Captain Obvious here, but if the ends are staying on the cables you're using, I think you'll simply need to use a larger diameter tube. You can choose tube that has a 2:1, 3:1 or 4:1 ratio of shrinkage. It's hard to tell precisely from the pictures, but it looks like what you have would end up pretty snug even if it's only 2:1, so it seems you'll be fine with a larger diameter.
 
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I didn't face the same challenges as you. I used extensions with mini-plugs, and it looks like your instrument cable is pretty stout too.

Sorry to be Captain Obvious here, but if the ends are staying on the cables you're using, I think you'll simply need to use a larger diameter tube. You can choose tube that has a 2:1, 3:1 or 4:1 ratio of shrinkage. It's hard to tell precisely from the pictures, but it looks like what you have would end up pretty snug even if it's only 2:1, so it seems you'll be fine with a larger diameter.

Sometimes I just need some Captain Obvious in my life. I think the 3/8" is just too small for what those two cables are. And I didn't realize there were different diameters beyond the few tubes that I researched. So returning these, and I'll look for larger diameter tubes. That should solve it. Thanks!
 
I got wider tubes and they fit but did not shrink down super tight. Don't know if it was due to using a hair dryer or if I should have gotten one size smaller. Anyway, working for now and I can always get the next size down to try to get it more snug. Thanks for the tips!
 

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Hi guys, I just signed up for this forum and this thread has been really interesting to read, so many good advices.

I decided on making my own multicable, but I have run into some issues. I wanted to make a combo cable with 5pin XLR cable between the breakout cables, so I just have to plugin one plug when entering the stage. However the headphone signal which runs from the headphone amp i our IEM rig, bleeds over into the bass signal, so our bass cabinet keeps sending out som monitor signal as well. We use Behringer PM1.

I use a cable with 4-core and 1-shield. 3 cores for HP signal, and 1 core + shield for bass signal, using pin 1 to 5 on the XLR plug.
What am I doing wrong? Is the HP signal to strong? I have measured all cables, and there are no shorts.
Also, when touching the XLR housing, I get loud hum, but nothing is soldered to the metal housing.
Any suggestions?
 
Any suggestions?

Sorry to hear you're having trouble. There were some ideas involving 5-pin XLR tossed around, but I can't say that I've heard of or seen any results of anyone actually doing anything with it.

This is out of my depth and 100% speculation, but it seems to me that your idea treats the cable as having 5 equal and independent conductors when it may be the case that 4 conductors + 1 shield has some functional difference that's causing the problems you're seeing. That might be the question you need answered.

Good luck
 
Any suggestions?


Interesting situation. I had considered a shielded 4-conductor cable (like Canare Star Quad) when I was originally mulling this situation (see old thread linked @ Post #13), but didn’t think about signal bleed.

I think the situation is that the headphone signal is MUCH hotter than the guitar signal. I was going to suggest re-wiring with the shield used as the headphone “common,” but on further consideration I don’t think that will work either.

I think the only solution is to have both signals shielded. As such, you’ll need a cable like Mogami W2930. It’s a two-channel snake cable (do a search for Mogami w2930 Redco Audio for a vender).

But that will probably open up a new problem, in that the cable thickness might be too much to stuff under the barrel of the XLR connectors.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

Ecclesia: Unique Arrangements of Hymns, P&W Standards, and Original Tunes
Administrator, Pedulla Club #45
Administrator, Official Tobias Club #133
Fretless Club #943
Big Cabs Club #23
My Rig: Stage and FOH Friendly
My Basses
 
The headphone signal beeing too hot was my thought also. What if I use a Behringer P2 instead, and amplify the line signal at the beltpack? Or would a line signal be top hot also?
Regards, Ewoud
 
@drpepper thanks for that video! I needed it.

Does anyone find that the lower-end wireless IEM setups aren't so great for bass? For years I've been using a $200 wireless system by CAD. It gives me a mushy bass sound while the other instruments seem pretty accurate.

When I use the same earbuds to practice at home, wired, I get a fast, dynamic, accurate sound that I can work with.

It seems like I'd get a much better sound with wired IEMs on stage. Am I right?
 
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Interesting situation. I had considered a shielded 4-conductor cable (like Canare Star Quad) when I was originally mulling this situation (see old thread linked @ Post #13), but didn’t think about signal bleed.

I think the situation is that the headphone signal is MUCH hotter than the guitar signal. I was going to suggest re-wiring with the shield used as the headphone “common,” but on further consideration I don’t think that will work either.

I think the only solution is to have both signals shielded. As such, you’ll need a cable like Mogami W2930. It’s a two-channel snake cable (do a search for Mogami w2930 Redco Audio for a vender).

But that will probably open up a new problem, in that the cable thickness might be too much to stuff under the barrel of the XLR connectors.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

Ecclesia: Unique Arrangements of Hymns, P&W Standards, and Original Tunes
Administrator, Pedulla Club #45
Administrator, Official Tobias Club #133
Fretless Club #943
Big Cabs Club #23
My Rig: Stage and FOH Friendly
My Basses
Sharing a common ground could be an issue in addition to the conductor cross talk.

You can get two pair individually jacked and shielded snake cable.