Unisyn is assumed to be for monophonic synth use, i.e. bass lines, lead lines, etc.?
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Bass Synth Instruments
- Thread starter jimfist
- Start date
Unisyn is assumed to be for monophonic synth use, i.e. bass lines, lead lines, etc.?
they do existThanks. I think... Just so I'm clear -- remember, my intimate awareness of all things MIDI peaked right around 1992-- you're saying there is a (hopefully simple) cable adapter that converts the TRS output of the UniSyn to a standard old skool 5-pin MIDI DIN plug...right?
3.5mm Mini Jack TRS to 5 Pin MIDI DIN Cable -www.premier-cable.net
@Quatschmacher - Update on Industrial Radio: I just got an email returned from them, and I'm sending you a PM with details JFYI.
Yes, Industrial Radio is still making the IR-J4 bass, accompanied with the updated FSI-2 interface. Lead time for a new order is still lengthy (8 months min.), and as with many things, shipping and supply chain costs add significantly to the purchase price, currently $3200 USD base price (not sure their website is fully up to date).
With all that, the IR-J4 looks like a great solution, if for no other reason that you're getting a standard issue, quality jazz bass instrument. This rocks the boat less than, for example, the Willcox Saber which is a complete departure from traditional magnetic pickups, though they are fine instruments none-the-less....just very unique, and much more fiddly with respect to string changes and setups. In favor of Willcox, they are immediately available as stock 4 string basses, for all intents.
I'm still in the fence on much of this, and given the prognosis for this winter in the Northeast USA for available supplies of essential fuels (natural gas, oil, and gasoline), I may have to re-allocate my funds to such things as firewood, a second backup generator, and a few 5 gallon gas cans in case the fecal matter hits the fan over the next 5 months.
This is Darrell Freeman using a Novation Bass Station II.
https://youtube.com/shorts/ypnRlZQJMqQ?feature=share
https://youtube.com/shorts/ypnRlZQJMqQ?feature=share
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I've experienced this myself. My old board was C4>Aftershock>HXFX>(Loop 1: H9)>(Loop 2: Ottobit)>HX Stomp.
I never actually tested the specific latency of that board, but with all pedals turned on it amounted to 8 A/DA conversions. I felt it more than I heard it, and just adjusted by being on the top of the beat. It's really amazing how far digital devices have come now, I can't wait to see how far the limits are pushed.
I see you've gotten a few replies now, but I'll add my experience with the GR-55 and GK-compatible pickups (in my case also the piezo + 13-pin output from a Godin A4 Ultra fretless) as well as other pedal options mentioned here that I also have or have used:
I actually love the sound textures available from the GR55 + Godin setup, but if you are looking to directly play any percussive type instruments (piano, electric piano, etc) then the latency from the PCM sounds in the low register can be a drag. I found basically the same to be true of the EHX sample-based pedals when used with bass FWIW. However I find the GR55 can be amazing for building big and lush sounds by layering the 4 voices you have available and messing with detuning certain voices, etc. The best working straight PCM sounds in the low register of a bass as mentioned are the ambient type swelling voices and ones that don't have a sharp attack that would stick out when it isn't triggering right on the beat like horns and organs, synth pads, bowed strings (ideally playing slow suspended lines rather than fast runs for all of these), the worst ones are the pianos, bells, etc.
That said, if you are willing to play lines up an octave then the tracking latency is significantly improved, and you can detune any of the voices down an octave so still have your bass register covered. On that note, the GR55 actually tracks a guitar much better across the entire fretboard and so my guitar with GK-3 pickup can actually play PCM bass and bass-synth patches cleaner than my bass can (obviously by pitching the voices down an octave in the pedal). The main guy behind the band Tame Impala has actually recorded a ton of their stuff using a guitar to trigger a GR55 for bass, keys, strings, etc and I doubt anyone would have known if he hadn't talked about it in interviews or used that setup on stage for some sounds.
I have also used the MIDI output from the GR55 to trigger external synths, and the outcome is similar in the sense of needing to play up an octave for fast/clean tracking. The latency from the MIDI out is indeed worse than the latency from the internal PCM sample voices, as would be expected (I'm pretty sure the internal PCM samples are not MIDI triggered, and the MIDI out is a separate process).
I also have both a C4 and Future Impact, which I love for different reasons. Both pedals track faster an octave up, and honestly I'm so used to that from using an OC-2 and other analog octave devices that I naturally gravitate up to the 7th fret and above when playing any of these pedals. The Future Impact is great for Moog-like mono bass synth lines and tracks decently well across the board while the C4 has a ton of tricks up its sleeve for alot of pad type sounds and other strange textures- they both have some overlap but feel and sound different enough to warrant having both around. Of course both of these pedals are best for mono lines- the C4 has a rudimentary Poly voice but it doesn't work well with bass IME (more of a textural thing even with guitar), and this is where the GR55 plus hex pickup really shines ( just bumping adjacent strings on the C4 or FI can have tracking implications, while on the GR55 you have 6 seperate tracking synths going simultaneously so you can play much more organically)
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@sunbeast
All good info. I'm well used to playing synth lines an octave up when needed, for sounds created based on the OC-2 model in my multifx.
I'll not likely use a GK add on to a bass, but one where the interface is integral to the bass. I'm leaning toward the Willcox HexFx and GR55, though I'm not sure how I feel about the unique considerations of the instrument.
Industrial Radio has the solution I prefer, as it's a traditional jazz bass, but it is quite expensive and has a lengthy lead time, and is overseas.
Other less daunting, simpler solutions are the Unisyn interface ( or other ) triggering synth modules, or stand-alone synth/pcm pedal(s). These are generally monophonic devices, though, and thus limited in flexibility. I'd also need a few of them to cover a broad range of sounds. The C4 or Future Impact are flexible within their realm, but don't trigger PCM sounds, or feature polyphony.
It seems that the Willcox HexFx GR55 would meet the most of my requirements. The ability to program strings individually for pitch and sound triggering is perhaps the most appealing aspect of this setup, and I could get some serious mileage from that.
The cost of this system is +/-2400 USD, and it does have a return policy if not satisfied. Not cheap, but readily available and checks the most boxes for me.
Ok....talk me out if the Willcox HexFx.
All good info. I'm well used to playing synth lines an octave up when needed, for sounds created based on the OC-2 model in my multifx.
I'll not likely use a GK add on to a bass, but one where the interface is integral to the bass. I'm leaning toward the Willcox HexFx and GR55, though I'm not sure how I feel about the unique considerations of the instrument.
Industrial Radio has the solution I prefer, as it's a traditional jazz bass, but it is quite expensive and has a lengthy lead time, and is overseas.
Other less daunting, simpler solutions are the Unisyn interface ( or other ) triggering synth modules, or stand-alone synth/pcm pedal(s). These are generally monophonic devices, though, and thus limited in flexibility. I'd also need a few of them to cover a broad range of sounds. The C4 or Future Impact are flexible within their realm, but don't trigger PCM sounds, or feature polyphony.
It seems that the Willcox HexFx GR55 would meet the most of my requirements. The ability to program strings individually for pitch and sound triggering is perhaps the most appealing aspect of this setup, and I could get some serious mileage from that.
The cost of this system is +/-2400 USD, and it does have a return policy if not satisfied. Not cheap, but readily available and checks the most boxes for me.
Ok....talk me out if the Willcox HexFx.
I haven’t tried the Wilcox system, but will say that I was pretty surprised at how well the Godin piezo system works with the GR55. I’ve seen hardly any demos on it and there is little info I’ve found apart from it using I believe RMC piezos and some sort of integrated hexpander preamp that has filtering optimized for tracking purposes. I don’t believe the Roland synth-access output is still an option on the A4/A5 basses though and they are priced pretty similarly to the Wilcox brand new anyway (I’m lucky to have gotten mine used on TB for about half of what used ones go for these days).@sunbeast
All good info. I'm well used to playing synth lines an octave up when needed, for sounds created based on the OC-2 model in my multifx.
I'll not likely use a GK add on to a bass, but one where the interface is integral to the bass. I'm leaning toward the Willcox HexFx and GR55, though I'm not sure how I feel about the unique considerations of the instrument.
Industrial Radio has the solution I prefer, as it's a traditional jazz bass, but it is quite expensive and has a lengthy lead time, and is overseas.
Other less daunting, simpler solutions are the Unisyn interface ( or other ) triggering synth modules, or stand-alone synth/pcm pedal(s). These are generally monophonic devices, though, and thus limited in flexibility. I'd also need a few of them to cover a broad range of sounds. The C4 or Future Impact are flexible within their realm, but don't trigger PCM sounds, or feature polyphony.
It seems that the Willcox HexFx GR55 would meet the most of my requirements. The ability to program strings individually for pitch and sound triggering is perhaps the most appealing aspect of this setup, and I could get some serious mileage from that.
The cost of this system is +/-2400 USD, and it does have a return policy if not satisfied. Not cheap, but readily available and checks the most boxes for me.
Ok....talk me out if the Willcox HexFx.
I already had and was in love with my Godin for a few years before deciding I needed to at least give the integrated 13 pin jack a shot (I had low expectations based on my reading beforehand), and I’m totally loving it for the experimental soundscape stuff I play around with with a buddy of mine. I will say that I’m not sure I would invest in a $2400 bass dedicated solely to a GR55 system though, as it certainly is a compromise in many ways with a bass fundamentally due to how tracking happens. When we play I always have a full “regular bass” signal going on that I blend with the textures from the GR55 and sometimes also separate MIDI-triggered software synths (sometimes layering 4 plus synth sounds at once via different sources!) and can adjust the levels of these different signals after recording to mask some of the tracking quirks.
I think if you really like the Wilcox in general and you are willing to adjust your playing to fit the limitations of the GR55 tracking then there is a TON of stuff you can do with that unit that is unlike any other non-computer bass-triggered system.
If clean/fast tracking is of upmost importance to you from these things then a guitar is the way to go (or even tuning a bass an octave up as I’ve heard done before so you still get some of the feel of the bass but with the improved tracking of the guitar range). And my understanding is that the Fishman TriplePlay system is a noticeable step-up from the Roland options as far as polyphonic pitch to MIDI goes on a guitar (plus it can interface directly with a computer or synth/keyboard to trigger MIDI instruments without the need for a separate pedal).
@sunbeast
Generally, I'll be playing traditional bass sounds, and adding in alternative sounds here and there, either layered, lead line, or special effect. So yes, the wild card here is whether I like the Willcox bass for what it is as a bass. It would truly be a dilemma to find that I love the GR55 implementation, but find the bass itself to not be my cup of tea.
Best case is that I find both the bass and the HexFx GR55 to be satisfactory. If either aspect fails, then I'd have to scrap the idea. Problem is that I can't just go to a local music shop and audition the Willcox. I'd have to purchase and rather quickly run the setup through its paces.
You're right that it's a significant chunk of $$ to lay down on something of an experiment, but the only way to know is to try, right? IMO, there's value in knowing what does or doesn't work, and why....even if it means I might lose a couple $$. Will continue to mull this over.
Generally, I'll be playing traditional bass sounds, and adding in alternative sounds here and there, either layered, lead line, or special effect. So yes, the wild card here is whether I like the Willcox bass for what it is as a bass. It would truly be a dilemma to find that I love the GR55 implementation, but find the bass itself to not be my cup of tea.
Best case is that I find both the bass and the HexFx GR55 to be satisfactory. If either aspect fails, then I'd have to scrap the idea. Problem is that I can't just go to a local music shop and audition the Willcox. I'd have to purchase and rather quickly run the setup through its paces.
You're right that it's a significant chunk of $$ to lay down on something of an experiment, but the only way to know is to try, right? IMO, there's value in knowing what does or doesn't work, and why....even if it means I might lose a couple $$. Will continue to mull this over.
These cables also come with a lot of modem synths these days. Korg and Roland both include these with their instruments these days.
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I’ve got quite a large board, all of which are digital. Generally, with 2-3 pedals engaged I feel virtually no latency at all. The Source Audio gear has really low latency compared to older devices like the Eventide H9. So that helps a lot. Latency on devices that do delays or verbs kind of get lost in the smearing / nature of the effect. Modulation is a bit like that too. Dirt, octavers and filters need to be immediate. When I have a patch that uses a densely stacked array of digital pedals, I’m usually delving into the smeary world of ambient noises. So latency times are generally imperceptible in the over all patch.
Feature rich pedals like the C4 have so many options inside of them, octaves, dirt, filters, sequencer, trem, synth etc…a lot can be done with just the one pedal. Which can mitigate any perceivable latency.
I suspect the next gen digital pedals will be using some kind of common standard digital signal path…so all this DAC issues will be a thing of the past
Yes, the Rob O'Reilly MIDI bass was what initially caught my eye along with the Willcox (see the thread tags).
It seems similar to the Industrial Radio, traditional Jazz Bass instrument, but with similar downside considerations: overseas, long lead time (12 months), and cost ( pushing $3k USD ).
I haven't found a North America/USA manufacturer who does what IR and Rob O'reilly do (mag pickups, traditional bass + integrated triggering conversion). Willcox does, but they use their Lightwave technology pickup.
It would be great if Willcox offered an option that added mag pickups for the unfettered bass sound, and the Lightwave for just the conversion. I suppose if one were inclined to do so, this could be done as a retrofit, bypassing the Lightwave in favor of a mag pickup, but I'm not that brave.
Correct. He's a bass player playing a keyboard. I've been there and done that.
What I'm looking for is not that. I should have made the thread clear from the start that I'm looking to use a bass guitar as the source of triggering synth/sample sounds.
fwiw I think the "special sauce" that Industrial Radio and Rob O'Reilly employ is the fret sensing system...aka the old Steve Chick technology. Not sure if anyone's mentioned this in this thread yet, but have you looked for a second-hand Peavey MIDIBass or DataBass? That gets you the fret sensing system + piezo bridge + mag pickups + traditional bass + USA manufacturer...only thing it doesn't have is integrated conversion (there's an outboard electronics module that handles most of that) and a warranty.