Jeff Berlin says = Question Everything that Bass Players Teach You. Question me, too!

[JeffBerlin]

Thanks for the feedback Jeff. I'm always looking for improvement.

Here's a chorus of solo for you to listen to.

Very nice. Thanks for sharing. Soloing isn't everyone's cup of tea. But it makes for a fantastic opportunity to improve one's playing.

I would like to hear more chord harmony in your solo and more resolution. This example (as with the walking line) shows me that you would benefit from further involvement into harmony that your other teachers might not have shared with you. Good luck in your musical future.

 

[Mechanical]

The proof of the pudding is in the playing. If one decides to measure fame with playing ability, then most schools, camps. internet members are reflecting poor skills as nearly all that attend these things aren't heard of afterward by a national or international audience. It is no coincidence that schools always tout their famous grads, which always number into a very few, while literally hundreds if not thousands of grads are never heard of. Anyone that touts career success with playing improvement already have lost credibility as practically everyone involved in these systems are unknown.

Ok, Jeff. I'm in chemistry. I've got my Ph.D. I've been pretty successful. Everyone who is in chemistry knows who the best advisors are if you want success in the field. It's not always the folks at the Ivys (Harvard, Yale, Berkeley (in chemistry), etc.)and the I.T. schools (Caltech and MIT). They know if they send their student to a specific professor at Delaware, UCSC, or Utah (for example) that that student will be amongst the best educated chemists in that particular field. Moreover, their proven observed success over time is why I would recommend a bachelor's level student to a particular Ph.D. advisor at a particular school.

That's why I phrased the question the way I did. Over years, decades, who are the students? Not just one lesson or one year or a couple of lessons over a year or two. Certainly if your method is better, then certainly that would end in better results. You are correct: any teacher can mention someone who had a cup of coffee with them as proof of their success. But you pointed out that you have been at this for decades. It should be obvious that you could point to at least a couple of your prodigies who have achieved great success as musicians. I know as an Ph.D. advisor and mentor that I can. Why? Because not only I can I observe their success, others can. Not only can others can, they themselves can. And they have acknowledged me as part of their success. Which is the best reward of all, as a teacher.

 

[JeffBerlin]

Ok, Jeff, a question for you:

Who are your students who mainly learned primarily from your tutelage that have become famous, or at least have become professional bass players? Not just somebody who took a lesson or two from you, but (hopefully) multiple people who studied with you for years (minimum), perhaps decades, and have accomplished what you think a professional bassist should be?

I'm asking because I have been doing searches online and can't find one.

And, as they say, "The proof in the pudding is the tasting."

If one is a music teacher, the proof of the pudding is in the playing not the fame or the work.

No educator can promise a career. What I DO promise anyone that studies with me is that they will learn how to play better than they did before. This is all that anyone can offer to a student.

If one measures fame as proof of the successful training methods offered by schools or teachers, then most schools, camps. internet members have already failed in their promise of a successful career to their students. Schools tout their famous grads as success stories, but haven't shared that thousands of their grads didn't acquire the success that the famous name grads did.

I’ve had some success stories as a teacher. But, what I promised my students was that they would become way better bass players. And I delivered on that promise. Again, it is the only truth that any teacher can offer a student.

Finally, (and I view this as important) I believe that schools are training bass students to become obsolete. In all styles of music, from 1940’s big bands, 1950’s rock and roll, 1960’s electrified rock, 1970’s Disco, jazz, and pop, 1980’s hair bands, 1990’s alternative rock and grunge, and 2000’s hip hop and rap, every style had one thing in common; they all included practically the same harmony in the music. This means that before anyone can hope for a career via today's manner of acquiring one, everyone, 100% need to first learn how to play. Since history shows that most popular musical styles, technologies, and methods of function must eventually pass from use, if one isn't being taught only music that will give people the skill to adapt themselves to any new style or method that surely is coming this way soon, then I see bass players in the future dealing with the fact that they might not have been as well trained for a career as they thought.

 

[JeffBerlin]

Ok, Jeff. I'm in chemistry. I've got my Ph.D. I've been pretty successful. Everyone who is in chemistry knows who the best advisors are if you want success in the field. It's not always the folks at the Ivys (Harvard, Yale, Berkeley (in chemistry), etc.)and the I.T. schools (Caltech and MIT). They know if they send their student to a specific professor at Delaware, UCSC, or Utah (for example) that that student will be amongst the best educated chemists in that particular field. Moreover, their proven observed success over time is why I would recommend a bachelor's level student to a particular Ph.D. advisor at a particular school.

That's why I phrased the question the way I did. Over years, decades, who are the students? Not just one lesson or one year or a couple of lessons over a year or two. Certainly if your method is better, then certainly that would end in better results. You are correct: any teacher can mention someone who had a cup of coffee with them as proof of their success. But you pointed out that you have been at this for decades. It should be obvious that you could point to at least a couple of your prodigies who have achieved great success as musicians. I know as an Ph.D. advisor and mentor that I can. Why? Because not only I can I observe their success, others can. Not only can others can, they themselves can. And they have acknowledged me as part of their success. Which is the best reward of all, as a teacher.

I never taught anyone for any longer than a year. What I did in a year was take players and totally change their abilities to play. Then I advised people how to continue to learn after we shook hands and said goodbye.

But, to answer your question, in a nutshell, I taught Phil Mann, Zoltan Dekany, and Joe Hubbard, three top electric bass instructors. Phil is now playing with Albert Lee. I taught some guys from Asia who played in one of the biggest bands in that region. A couple of guys were nominated for a Grammy. Other guys check in with me and tell me of their successes as players and their career accomplishments. That's about the best that my memory can serve me.

 

[jallenbass]

Very nice. Thanks for sharing. Soloing isn't everyone's cup of tea. But it makes for a fantastic opportunity to improve one's playing.

I would like to hear more chord harmony in your solo and more resolution. This example (as with the walking line) shows me that you would benefit from further involvement into harmony that your other teachers might not have shared with you. Good luck in your musical future.

You're right that soloing is not my preferred hot beverage. I do understand that it's an excellent tool for learning though. Thanks for your input.

 

[75kva]

I think Jeff is trying to tell us that there are more "teachers" who are trying to teach us technique rather than focus on music theory . Slap lessons as opposed to theory . I believe he is correct !

 

[JeffBerlin]

You're right that soloing is not my preferred hot beverage. I do understand that it's an excellent tool for learning though. Thanks for your input.

I will add one thought only so that you might think on it. I mean no direct criticism and you can correct me if you wish.

You mentioned having at least 12 teachers since the 1970's. Pardon me, but, there are large gaps in your playing that indicate that 12 teachers left out a lot of stuff. Most great players usually had one teacher, often for years. The notion of the multi bass instructors is a myth. Most other instrumentalists spend years with one teacher and the results are usually excellent. Your situation doesn't compare with that of a well trained pianist, but it should have. This is why I continue to believe that electric bass teachers are among the least qualified music instructors in music even if they are qualified to be terrific bass players.

I hope that you are OK with my sharing this.

Best regards,

Jeff

 

[JeffBerlin]

I think Jeff is trying to tell us that there are more "teachers" who are trying to teach us technique rather than focus on music theory . Slap lessons as opposed to theory . I believe he is correct !

I am saying that music counts first, not groove, feel or anything else that is taught to electric bass players. Nothing is as important in a weekly lesson.

Three to six months of quality musical practice and everyone would know what I am talking about.

 

[jallenbass]

I will add one thought only so that you might think on it. I mean no direct criticism and you can correct me if you wish.

You mentioned having at least 12 teachers since the 1970's. Pardon me, but, there are large gaps in your playing that indicate that 12 teachers left out a lot of stuff. Most great players usually had one teacher, often for years. The notion of the multi bass instructors is a myth. Most other instrumentalists spend years with one teacher and the results are usually excellent. Your situation doesn't compare with that of a well trained pianist, but it should have. This is why I continue to believe that electric bass teachers are among the least qualified music instructors in music even if they are qualified to be terrific bass players.

I hope that you are OK with my sharing this.

Best regards,

Jeff

No problem Jeff. My only reason for saying that is that no one ever taught me slap or any of the things that you are against. There was always a music stand with books or manuscript paper on them that was the focus of the lesson.

 

[jallenbass]

I will add one thought only so that you might think on it. I mean no direct criticism and you can correct me if you wish.

You mentioned having at least 12 teachers since the 1970's. Pardon me, but, there are large gaps in your playing that indicate that 12 teachers left out a lot of stuff. Most great players usually had one teacher, often for years. The notion of the multi bass instructors is a myth. Most other instrumentalists spend years with one teacher and the results are usually excellent. Your situation doesn't compare with that of a well trained pianist, but it should have. This is why I continue to believe that electric bass teachers are among the least qualified music instructors in music even if they are qualified to be terrific bass players.

I hope that you are OK with my sharing this.

Best regards,

Jeff

I feel a need to clarify a couple of things for the sake of an open and honest discussion. I believe your critiques of my playing are correct but not due to ignorance on my part.

You suggested this "...where you played a descending F Eb D resolving to a Bb on a Bb chord isn't a strong resolution. Try F Eb A, and then resolve on a Bb." Yes, I agree that your suggestion is a stronger resolution and I like it but several years back I determined that I quite like the line that I played and it has made its way into my playing. Not ignorance but choice.

As for the solo I can tell you that I'm not drawn to that part of playing jazz and have not put much effort into it. I understand resolving, for instance, the 7 to the 3 in a V7 - I chord change but haven't worked on it enough to be part of my playing. That's on me and not my teachers.

I just want to be sure I'm representing myself and my training correctly.

 

[JeffBerlin]

You suggested this "...where you played a descending F Eb D resolving to a Bb on a Bb chord isn't a strong resolution. Try F Eb A, and then resolve on a Bb." Yes, I agree that your suggestion is a stronger resolution and I like it but several years back I determined that I quite like the line that I played and it has made its way into my playing. Not ignorance but choice.

I can appreciate this. I would only add that what you like in music and what actually provides a better musical presentation are two different things. Again, I mean no insult here. But, had you been taught correctly at the beginning and shown that certain sounds and even musical procedures exist for a reason, you might be at a point to understand that F Eb D (so to speak) isn't even a good artistic choice to choose when playing a walking bass line. This walking line progression is common among new students to jazz walking bass lines, that being root, 7, 6. I've heard it many times. Thus, I teach that resolution itself is the priority in learning and an artistically beautiful thing as well. Resolution in fact, is the only trustworthy aspect of bass playing and most bass teachers don't even know what it is. You simply have to resolve your bass parts, and if you wish to learn anything from every top player in music, learn this.

Just ponder this thought: No one on any recording playing a walking line that I ever heard used this progression because, in so many words, they all were properly taught why not to do this.

Again, I hope that my explanation was taken in the positive educational spirit that I meant to share it. I hoped this helped.

 

[75kva]

Sorry to gush here but , I love your work in "Joe Frazier" ! Made me realize how much work goes into playing and I have far to go !

 

[JeffBerlin]

Sorry to gush here but , I love your work in "Joe Frazier" ! Made me realize how much work goes into playing and I have far to go !

Ha! Gush away!

Also, I have a 30th Anniversary version of Joe Frazier coming out in about 6 weeks. By far, it is the best version of the three and it is almost a completely new composition. I wrote and recorded it to raise the last amount of money that I need to record my tribute CD of the songs written by my hero Jack Bruce.

 

[jallenbass]

I will add one thought only so that you might think on it. I mean no direct criticism and you can correct me if you wish.

You mentioned having at least 12 teachers since the 1970's. Pardon me, but, there are large gaps in your playing that indicate that 12 teachers left out a lot of stuff. Most great players usually had one teacher, often for years. The notion of the multi bass instructors is a myth. Most other instrumentalists spend years with one teacher and the results are usually excellent. Your situation doesn't compare with that of a well trained pianist, but it should have. This is why I continue to believe that electric bass teachers are among the least qualified music instructors in music even if they are qualified to be terrific bass players.

I hope that you are OK with my sharing this.

Best regards,

Jeff

During that timeframe, I was taking weekly lessons in preparation for a symphony orchestra career. I would take lessons on bass guitar only sporadically and often just one lesson with one teacher or sometimes a handful with another. There were years that went by without a bass guitar lesson or even playing a bass guitar or jazz. I believe that has more to do with what you hear in my jazz playing.

 

[75kva]

Ha! Gush away!

Also, I have a 30th Anniversary version of Joe Frazier coming out in about 6 weeks. By far, it is the best version of the three and it is almost a completely new composition. I wrote and recorded it to raise the last amount of money that I need to record my tribute CD of the songs written by my hero Jack Bruce.[/QUOTE

 

[75kva]

I'm in !

 

[leonard]

F Eb D (so to speak) isn't even a good artistic choice to choose when playing a walking bass line.

Why is this? Why is going through A better?

What does this resolution thing mean? A release of musical tension? Where can I learn more about this?

 

[SteveCS]

Why is this? Why is going through A better?

What does this resolution thing mean? A release of musical tension? Where can I learn more about this?

In 6/8, repeat a D7 arpeggio D, F#, A, C, A, F# as even 1/8ths over a few bars then play a G arpeggio descending. That's resolution...

OK a little more. Where is the tension in the D7 chord? Between D and F#? Between F# and A? Between D and A? No, because 3rds and 5ths are concords. Or between F# and C? Bingo! The tritone is a discord. Do either F# or C play a part in the G chord? No. But how far away are they from notes in the G chord? A semitone or half-step each. Half step movement always provides powerful resolution - here there are two such movements - F# (Leading tone) rises to G (Tonic) and C (Subdominant) falls to B (Mediant). The movement is contrapuntal (one goes up and one goes down) which always sounds well. The D provides the glue between the two chords - it is common to both. The A in the D7 is a discord in the key of G and may be seen as resolving both up (to B) and/or down (to G). Welcome to the perfect cadence.

 

[SteveCS]

The real point of the above is that it is just facts - no exclusive genre, no special techniques, no performance, no groove, timing or feel, just simple facts.

 

[JeffBerlin]

The real point of the above is that it is just facts - no exclusive genre, no special techniques, no performance, no groove, timing or feel, just simple facts.

Precisely! Learning correctly is nearly always about learning facts. It isn't about learning art, groove or feel. It isn't about nearly playing the right note, but playing the right note. Learning correctly will save everybody who is reading this years in wondering about how to play, what to play and why it is necessary to play it.