Cab Impulse Response Megathread

#741
I'd recommend you use the stock 1 X 15 cabinet IR and get a solid feel for what the Bass Box does as it is. Beyond that, there is more than enough tone shaping available using the EQ. You can spend a TON of time just experimenting with the various subtle overdrive BOOST settings and the 3 EQ modes.
 
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#742
Mooer Radar vs TC Electronic Impulse IR Loader

I have been happy with my Mooer Radar for headphone playing in my side rack.
The amp section hasn't really wow'ed me and the EQ section gets rarely used, even though it's pretty versatile, but a pain to edit on the fly.
That said, the cab sims sound pretty good.

But I ever kept wondering, if the sampling left something more to be exploited.
44.1 kHz @ 24bit and 23ms sample length.
It will happily accept 96kHz 500ms samples from my IR library and presumably downsample and truncate.
Side by side samples of the the same IR 96 vs 44.1, on some days I could swear I hear a difference and the next day I can't...
But I always was left wondering...

Enter the TC Electronic Impulse IR Loader:

Loads IR’s up to 200ms in length
Supports 44.1, 48 and 96Khz sample rates
Supports PCM 16 / 24 / 32-bit and 32-bit float format
24-bit uncompressed


Is anybody using the TC? Has tested it? Has a link to a comparison test? Maybe even for bass instead of guitar?

Has anybody compared the same IR's but at different sample length? Does the sample length affect latency for live playing?

Should I dive down this rabbit hole at the price of 2 tank fulls of gas?
 
#743
OldogNewTrick said:
Mooer Radar vs TC Electronic Impulse IR Loader

I have been happy with my Mooer Radar for headphone playing in my side rack.
The amp section hasn't really wow'ed me and the EQ section gets rarely used, even though it's pretty versatile, but a pain to edit on the fly.
That said, the cab sims sound pretty good.

But I ever kept wondering, if the sampling left something more to be exploited.
44.1 kHz @ 24bit and 23ms sample length.
It will happily accept 96kHz 500ms samples from my IR library and presumably downsample and truncate.
Side by side samples of the the same IR 96 vs 44.1, on some days I could swear I hear a difference and the next day I can't...
But I always was left wondering...

Enter the TC Electronic Impulse IR Loader:

Loads IR’s up to 200ms in length
Supports 44.1, 48 and 96Khz sample rates
Supports PCM 16 / 24 / 32-bit and 32-bit float format
24-bit uncompressed


Is anybody using the TC? Has tested it? Has a link to a comparison test? Maybe even for bass instead of guitar?

Has anybody compared the same IR's but at different sample length? Does the sample length affect latency for live playing?

Should I dive down this rabbit hole at the price of 2 tank fulls of gas?
Click to expand...

I haven't tried either of the IR loaders you mention above but I have used several different IR loaders (with the same IRs) and tried different sample rates across all devices.
The main units I've tried are the Shiftline Cabzone LE, Shiftline Cabzone X, NUX Solid Studio and Joyo Cab Box. I don't have particularly good ears but I couldn't hear a difference across different sample rates, but there is definitely a difference across the different devices. Lost likely due to the way the different units interpret the WAV file.
To my ears the Cabzone devices produce the most convincing cab-like effect.
 
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#744
I have searched all over... no direct comparison between the Radar and the TC IR Loader.
There were a number of reviews stating that comparing just the cab sims of Radar, Nux and Cabzone, no difference could be discerned.
But that was a number of years ago.
Would love to take an IR at the Radar's native resolution and compare that to the TC to see if there is a difference
Then take that same IR and go for maximum resolution to see if there is a difference
Then take that same IR and vary the sample length to see if, well you get the drift....

I am tempted to make use of Thomann's generous return policy.
But I'll have to wait for summer leave in a few weeks, before I actually have the necessary time for extended rabbit hole exploration.
Just that my wife has probably other plans for my time :oops: :facepalm: :roflmao:
 
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#745
OldogNewTrick said:
I have searched all over... no direct comparison between the Radar and the TC IR Loader.
There were a number of reviews stating that comparing just the cab sims of Radar, Nux and Cabzone, no difference could be discerned.
But that was a number of years ago.
Would love to take an IR at the Radar's native resolution and compare that to the TC to see if there is a difference
Then take that same IR and go for maximum resolution to see if there is a difference
Then take that same IR and vary the sample length to see if, well you get the drift....

I am tempted to make use of Thomann's generous return policy.
But I'll have to wait for summer leave in a few weeks, before I actually have the necessary time for extended rabbit hole exploration.
Just that my wife has probably other plans for my time :oops: :facepalm: :roflmao:
Click to expand...

I'm keen to know the results of your experiment.
I can definitely hear differences in the way IR files are interpreted by the 3 different IR loaders I've owned. I didn't care for the Joyo Cab Box at all. The Solid Studio sounds good, but by defaults it's designed for guitar. Once you upload 3rd party bass IRs, some of the capability of the rest of the pedal is lost (mic type and mic placement).
The Shiftline Cabzone sounded great. I stupidly sold it, and Shiftline have not made this product for a long time due to the unrest in that part of the world.
 
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#746
I am in the process of building a passive FRFR style cab, kind of like a fearful cab. I rock a vintage tube amp, but I want to try the cab with some IRs and also be able to send it out to DI (the vintage ampeg has no DI output).

Here are the options I have come up with.

1) Just run an IR loader into the tube amp, and then run a speaker level DI between the head and cab (so that the tubey goodness can be heard).
2) Use an IR loader that accepts speaker level (i.e. Two Notes offerings, Nux Solid Studio, Darkglass Element, etc.) after the head, but then run the balanced output into another class D power amp and then into the cab.

I was hoping there would be one unit that could accept speaker level, and also send the cab sim to both the FOH and to the cab, but it seems every product that accepts speaker level just has a "Thru" output to send to the cab without the cab sim enabled.

If you know of any better products, or have a preferred way of doing it, let me know!

Cheers,
Chris
 
#747
Hi guys, I have some questions.... I'm looking for an amp sim that is quite neutral and respectful of the bass sound... I tried the shiftline ones, but they are almost all boomy and with harsh highs... And they change a lot the sound of my bass.. I was watching redwirez and celestion bergantino... Of the latter I don't understand if I have to take cones+cab or just the bergantino cab... Anyway... What do you recommend that has a neutral sound, which respects the sound of my bass and with crystalline highs for slap?
 
#748
lukiluk said:
Hi guys, I have some questions.... I'm looking for an amp sim that is quite neutral and respectful of the bass sound... I tried the shiftline ones, but they are almost all boomy and with harsh highs... And they change a lot the sound of my bass.. I was watching redwirez and celestion bergantino... Of the latter I don't understand if I have to take cones+cab or just the bergantino cab... Anyway... What do you recommend that has a neutral sound, which respects the sound of my bass and with crystalline highs for slap?
Click to expand...

Amp sim or Cab IR?

The Bergantino Collection is great

RedWireZ Bass collection is cheap and pretty good

I love the free Shiftline IRs

Try adding a high pass filter
 
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#752
lukiluk said:
Hi guys, I have some questions.... I'm looking for an amp sim that is quite neutral and respectful of the bass sound... I tried the shiftline ones, but they are almost all boomy and with harsh highs... And they change a lot the sound of my bass.. I was watching redwirez and celestion bergantino... Of the latter I don't understand if I have to take cones+cab or just the bergantino cab... Anyway... What do you recommend that has a neutral sound, which respects the sound of my bass and with crystalline highs for slap?
Click to expand...
What is it that you're looking for the Impulse Response to do? Not trying to be a wise a$$, but the ultimate "respect" you can give to a bass guitar's inherent sound qualities is to do minimal filtering or tone shaping - in other words, a simple 3 band parametric EQ with Hi and Lo Pass filters.

Not exclusively, but much of the point of the Impulse Response is to capture the tonal characteristics that mics, preamps, and speaker cabinets impart on the sound. Is there a specific traditional bass rig that you like, which is tonally relatively neutral, that you'd like to capture? Also, keep in mind that there are "null" IRs, which are just a dead flat EQ (no tone is imparted), for those cases when you have no choice but to use an IR, but don't want it to impact the tone.
 
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#753
Hey, I have a question about IR loaders. I play bass in our Church band and our rhythm guitar player has been complaining that he doesn't like the sound of his Taylor plugged in. It sounds so much better acoustically. I saw a Taylor IR pack on the Worship Tutorials:

TLR 816 - Acoustic IR Pack - Worship Tutorials

I think this would get his sound where he would like it much more. I know this thread is about bass and about amp and cab IR's. This would not be an amp or cab IR but a guitar tone IR. I thought I would ask here because there seems to be a lot of experience in this thread about IR's.

So, my question is, what is the most affordable way to get a basic IR pedal that will load up these IR's?

This guy isn't a pedal guy and he doesn't like to fiddle with equipment. He only has a tuner and DI on his pedalboard. I am looking for something simple where he can pick an IR and just go with it. He is a friend, and I am probably going to buy one for him and pre-load the IR's as a Christmas gift. He is a friend, but I don't want to break the bank getting something expensive.

What about the Mooer Radar or the TC Electronic IR loader? Is there anything that would fit these requirements that might be even cheaper?
 
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#754
kirkdickinson said:
What about the Mooer Radar or the TC Electronic IR loader? Is there anything that would fit these requirements that might be even cheaper?
Click to expand...

I'm quite happy with my Flamma FS07, relatively cheap, very low latency compared to other more expensive pedals, and with the ability to run in stereo (different IR on either side even) if ever needed.
 
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#756
I have received my new TC Impulse IR loader to compare to my existing Mooer Radar.

Some initial feature comparisons:

Apps for loading and handling (on an oldish laptop running Win 10)
Mooer Radar - works alright, but a bit of a pain to manage loaded IR's (30) and Presets (36) with assigning IR/amp/EQ to a preset. Easy to forget to save, easy to overwrite your preset unintentionally, changing the order around means redoing everything, like all the presets (IR/amp/EQ) but now in the altered order. I keep Excel spreadsheets to keep track....
TC loader - looks like from the dawn of computing but works like breeze. Since it just manages the IR's, there's of course no presets to manage as well. Drag and drop all around. From your explorer window into the app. In the app from slot to slot. Changing the order is a breeze, drag and drop. Editing names likewise.

Name handling (IR resp. Preset)
Mooer Radar - preset name limited to 10 characters displayed, rest gets truncated on the loader display
TC loader - IR name can be long and the display scrolls the name. But if you structure the name too long, you'll have to wait and see what you got when searching for a particular IR, and you got 100 of them. But when done right, works very well.

Loader handling
Mooer Radar - selecting presets via rotary knob is very convenient, quick and easy. Pressing the rotary knob accesses the menues for IR, amp and EQ. Long press switches to bypass. Works really well, nothing for on the fly during a show, but you can edit without needing to connect it to a laptop. However nothing for the motor skill challenged...
TC loader - has one footswitch. Long press changes function from On - Bypass to A - B. Right and left of the switch are tip switches to run up, resp. down the IR list. That makes the loader more suited to live In-Ear playing, set A to finger style IR and B to slap style IR or a plectrum voiced IR.

Sound quality (bass -> Magellan Pre -> IR loader -> SSL2 Interface -> headphones)
TBH, when using the same close-miced IR with 96/24 200ms I don't really hear a difference between the TC Loader and downsampled by the Mooer Radar to 44,1/24 and truncated to 23 ms. However IR's with a blended in room mike sound better on the TC Loader with a sample length of 200ms.
Of course, it all could be my mind playing tricks on me. Still, to explore in a more systematic ways is diving down a really convoluted rabbit hole and that takes time :bassist:

Updates to follow.
 
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#757
I picked up a Sonicake IR loader.

last night I tried to load IRs on it. This one works by plugging it into your computer and it is seen as a USB drive. It came preloaded with I believe 11 IRs. The preloaded ones were all about 2Kb.

The IRs that I wanted to test on this were all much bigger. 28KB. I had to delete all the original ones yet still can only load seven of the new ones. Not sure this is gonna work very well. I’m surprised ours that I wanted to test on this we’re all much bigger. 28KB. I had to delete all the original ones yet still can only load seven of the new ones. Not sure this is gonna work very well. I’m surprised that it has no more memory than that.
 
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#758
kirkdickinson said:
I picked up a Sonicake IR loader.

last night I tried to load IRs on it. This one works by plugging it into your computer and it is seen as a USB drive. It came preloaded with I believe 11 IRs. The preloaded ones were all about 2Kb.

The IRs that I wanted to test on this were all much bigger. 28KB. I had to delete all the original ones yet still can only load seven of the new ones. Not sure this is gonna work very well. I’m surprised ours that I wanted to test on this we’re all much bigger. 28KB. I had to delete all the original ones yet still can only load seven of the new ones. Not sure this is gonna work very well. I’m surprised that it has no more memory than that.
Click to expand...

Guitars and rooms have a lot more resonances than a bass or guitar cabinet.

I took a quick look, the IRs in TLR 816 – Acoustic IR Pack, have two sizes 200ms and 500ms. 500ms IRs are generally better suited for live use, as they allow more of the natural reverb of the room to be captured.
For sure, they sound great.

A typical cabinet uses around 25ms. That is a 20 to 1 size difference!
 
#759
@kirkdickinson ,
The Sonicake Sonic IR specs indicate 24bit, 44.1kHz, mono, 1024 points. That’s what you should make the files before placing them on the device.

From the manual: “The IR file should be a 24-bit, 44.1kHz mono wav file ONLY.” And, “File name should start with a location number ranging from 01-11 (e.g. "06 My IR 4x12" is a correct name; the "06" indicates the location the file will be saved).”
 
#760
OldogNewTrick said:
I have received my new TC Impulse IR loader to compare to my existing Mooer Radar....
Updates to follow.
Click to expand...
for those that are interested.

After a couple of sessions with both units installed, I have now removed the Mooer Radar from my setup and installed the TC loader.
IMHO, I do think(believe/imagine) to hear a difference. My favourite high quality IR's (Celestion Bergantino, Redwires, Dr. Bonkers - all in 96/24 200 or 500ms) just sound a little bit livelier on the close miced IR's and a lot better on the IR's with mixed in room mics.
Also, the ease of use for the TC app in managing larger goups of IR's has won me over.
Another factor has been that the TC seems to be more tolerant of a higher input signal than the Radar, which is very easily overdriven...
 
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